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 Post subject: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 9:43 am 
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I have race kites 19 edge and 11 velocity that are the best at staying in the air. With a foil, any kite will have no problem to go upwind.
I think downwind is the problem that needs more attention especially for newbies.
Now for light wind this problem is greater as it would be nice to have a lightwind mid to low aspect kite that is produce lighter to stay in the air like race kites. Are we talking about strutless kites here? or is there something better?


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:00 pm 
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jplmain wrote:
I have race kites 19 edge and 11 velocity that are the best at staying in the air. With a foil, any kite will have no problem to go upwind.
I think downwind is the problem that needs more attention especially for newbies.
Now for light wind this problem is greater as it would be nice to have a lightwind mid to low aspect kite that is produce lighter to stay in the air like race kites. Are we talking about strutless kites here? or is there something better?


Generally, for hydrofoiling, lighter kites is better in all sizes IMO, no doubt at all and no downsides.

If you also use your (smaller) kites for riding waves, or for freestyle/jumping - it would not be good with light kites, and better to use the ones you have.

But for the big size, light kites is way better yes.
This is not particulary for going dowind, but also for handling when not up riding.

Why do you want a medium or low AR kite ???

As such a kite will not generate nearly the same power in marginal conditions when you want to get "up", nor for downwind.

But if you use the big kite for other things than hydrofoiling, it makes sense.
And maybe it is more "pleasant" regarding turning, so better for the freerider although the low end is not quite as good, yep.


How do you ride downwind ?

For freeride (racers must tell me how they do), I either go deep downwind with high speed and kite parked, so the apparent wind is "pleasant", good power and high speed, but you dont get overpowered as you go as deep as possible without losing speed - this is easy and really comfortable.

Or, I loop the kite around, typically 1 or two times forward, and then one or two times the other way - and continue like this.

Especially with a bit longer lines, you can go REALLY fast and really deep now, much deeper than if riding with the kite steady - a bit more attention is needed, but fun.
Some also work the kite in sinus I think, but I have not found any advantages doing this, only for riding halfwind or upwind in the lulls of course.

If you ride downwind with the kite steady, a light kite has no advantages really, but if you turn and loop it around, a lighter kite will work much better on the upstroke, especially if you ride too much towards it of course :naughty:

You might have a point, that strutless kites can be lighter, but they are unfortunately not as high AR.
But even when missing this, the lower AR might make them better at turning with slack lines, so you can use the extra agility that the high AR ones dont have, eventhough they have much better power spike :wink:

What do you weigh ?

8) PF


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 6:56 pm 
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Jplmain:
I think what you want is a kite that will drift and not fall off the sky when you go down wind, any wave kite that drifts is very good for downwind.


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:04 pm 
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It light wind wind you're very likely to be going downwind faster than windspeed. That means your course is actually upwind! That means an efficient race kite would be best.


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:17 pm 
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ozchrisb wrote:
It light wind wind you're very likely to be going downwind faster than windspeed. That means your course is actually upwind! That means an efficient race kite would be best.


Exactly.

But Hawaiis is right - as we dont really know how he rides downwind, it could also be ideal with a light non race kite that turns better (and drifts well of course)

Or, like you say, an efficient race kite (I prefer that, but as soon as the wind is not marginal, I dont want a race kite...)

PS: How do good racers go downwind in comps ?
Looping or sining or straight speed, or depending on wind speed/kite size which of the 3 is chosen ?

8) PF


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:25 pm 
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Thanks peter-frank I understand now. A surf kite might give better down the line stability but don't give the power when stroking it on the broad reach. I weigh 187lb was looking for a 14 to 13 light wind kite to replace my 19m. I have a 14m rebel but it just drops if I get to far to the edge. So I will just keep going forward towards the race kites for light wind broad reach problems although the Naish Pivot says it does it all with it's one strut technology even for racing http://vimeo.com/96132569 . Kind of hard to believe but its a thought.
On my down wind broad reach I just do gentle sign's because I pay to much attention to balancing so, the thought of not paying to much attention to the kite sounds nice.


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:26 pm 
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In the video, at 2:30 as soon as I started to turn downwind, I started to lose the apparent wind and the kite starts to fall. It is difficult to learn in marginal conditions, especially with on shore wind with hydrofoil.


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:28 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
PS: How do good racers go downwind in comps ?
Looping or sining or straight speed, or depending on wind speed/kite size which of the 3 is chosen ?

8) PF


I use the park and drift, but I'm painfully slow downwind and a lot of people get past me in races. When in the "power sweet spot" the fast guys seem to using the signing technique. They still get a pretty deep angle though. Others here use a "loop twice forwards, and the twice back" they're going slightly slower, but at a very very deep angle. They seem to like this when the really powered and it works well until you mess up, then the crashes are huge. When it gets light is seems to be harder to use the looping technique as it's easy to overrun the kite and find it on the water upwind of you! Some people even manage a "ride on starboard with the kite on port" technique when super over powered. It looks weird and I can't work that one out, but it worked really well for the people just in front of me a couple of weeks ago when the wind suddenly picked up as the race started.


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:29 pm 
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Hawaiis wrote:
In the video, at 2:30 as soon as I started to turn downwind, I started to lose the apparent wind and the kite starts to fall. It is difficult to learn in marginal conditions, especially with on shore wind with hydrofoil.

Try pointing upwind sharply when that happens. It gets some line tension and beings the apparent back to a nicer angle.


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 Post subject: Re: Best light wind downwind kite?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 27, 2014 7:55 pm 
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Here is a video of going down wind with Don's 12M cloud and my Carafino


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