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 Post subject: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:27 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:32 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Vancouver/capetown
Can anybody suggest three strap position or riding techniques to reduce the uncontrollable hops and flying fish experience that seem to occur in choppy water?
I am using the Moses Silent.
Cheers..


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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:34 am 
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Joined: Sun Apr 22, 2012 9:07 pm
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Move up a bit, it's all about foot positioning


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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:54 am 
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Move forward. Don't try and foil, go downwind/off the wind fast enough that the board just lifts out. You're kangarooing because you're trying to make the wing fly, it will fly by itself when it's going fast enough.


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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:57 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:32 pm
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Location: Vancouver/capetown
Thanks guys
Very useful info :D


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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:01 am 
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Location: Langebaan (Cape Town)
Is it only happening in choppy water? I find that a hydrofoil that has too much pitch stability to try and track the water surface too much. It wants to go up and down with the chop.

But normally that happens with a faster racing type foilboard. The silente looks slower, but might be too pitch stable for the speed and chop size that you have.

If you are already good at hydrofoiling, and just want to ride faster in chop conditions, then you can do one of two things:

If the foil is solid enough you can learn to get used to the way it pitches up and down and counter with your legs. But this means a quite aggressive type of riding and you have to counter it subconciously as you need to force the foil up and down very fast, almost before it starts to pitch up and down. Ot is not too comfortable, but it works for me if I want to ride fast in very large chop with my race foil (Spotz). But if the foil has even a little bit of flex (especially in the fuselage area) then countering the up and down becomes almost impossible and can irritate you a lot.

The second thing you can do which works surprisingly well is to tune the rear wing out a bit. I think you can do that on the silente: Take a flat washer, and put it on the back screw of the rear wing between the wing and the fuselage. It will cause the rear wing to angle upwards by a very small angle. This will cause the foilboard to want to pitch more nose up and be slightly out of tune. I find that this in general makes the foilboard more pitch unstable, and actually makes it easier to ride in chop conditions since it does not track the uneven water surface so much anymore. Try it, you might be surprised how well it works.


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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 9:38 am 
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Christoff is right - you can try to trim and see what difference it makes. If you are a bit experienced that is.

But I somehow have an idea you are relatively new ?

If so, it does not make much sense that it only happens in choppy water, if something with the foil.
And if it is choppy, you can not ride the board flat for long.

Would also think you "pop" it up too early and go too slow, so it stalls down again.

Eventhough, it should not if a fairly easy and lifting foil (how much do you weigh ? If a lot over average, you need much more speed before foiling)


Assume you have tried riding with the rear foot in front of the strap ?
As this helps when learning, but when better you somehow get more control and turning ability with the foot more aft.


If only in chop, it could be you, and not the board/foil.
Bcause you might instinctly, like naturally on other boards, try to follow the surface.

Try to look a bit further forward, maybe not fully at the horizon yet, but almost.
You have to ride straight through the chopwaves, of course foiling slightly lower in average than when flat.

This is way easier if your eyes are NOT focused on the surface in front of you - just a hint, try and see what happens ? :naughty:

Just some ideas.

8) PF


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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:51 pm 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:32 pm
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Location: Vancouver/capetown
really appreciate the advice.
Will experiment with all


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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Sun Jun 29, 2014 8:38 pm 
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Peter_Frank wrote:
Try to look a bit further forward, maybe not fully at the horizon yet, but almost.
You have to ride straight through the chopwaves, of course foiling slightly lower in average than when flat.

This is way easier if your eyes are NOT focused on the surface in front of you - just a hint, try and see what happens ? :naughty:


+1

I also have a Moses Silente and had my breakthrough moment last night :D

For me the key was firstly using a much smaller kite than when I started (I am 90kgs and last night was using a 12m in 10-12knots). This helped eliminate all the nasty/unwanted excessive foil pressures and has enabled me to start feeling what the foil is doing.

The main thing for me to stop kangarooing was to stand much more upright, relax more and look forwards to middle distance and further - definitely not what you are about to ride over.
I also was combing sheeting out almost fully when up on the foil and leaning forwards slowly and gradually, to prevent bunny hopping/kangarooing.

Also with a smaller kite, I have been diving it far more aggressively on the waterstart, so much so that I hydroplane immediately :D

For set up, on the silente/arriba board, I have the straps on the second from front positions.


Last edited by TheRussian on Mon Jun 30, 2014 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 1:01 am 
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yup, using a 9m edge when I'd usually use a 13m or 17. it's just magic! although using the 17m and the foil is just wow in super light wind..

115kg rider though.

oh and kangaroo hops? go faster, stop forcing it to fly. go faster and faster until it just lifts out...

:rollgrin:


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 Post subject: Re: Tips needed on reducing the kangaroo effect
PostPosted: Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:56 am 
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Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 10:32 pm
Posts: 68
Location: Vancouver/capetown
had a brilliant day on the water !
I combined all the advice above and it worked.
moved the straps all the way forward ( the second from the back is going to be better) as mentioned above.
very safe foil to learn on as it is so forgiving. :D


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