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Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

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kjorn
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Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby kjorn » Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:57 pm

I have no access to a vacuum pump, so I'll have to do all the lay up old school, by hand.

How many layers can I do at once?
Can I do a layer, let it dry, then add another. Are there any issues with the layers binding together?
Slow or fast catalyst?

Any tips for doing the mast? I'm going clamp the mast, leading edge facing up and to try to wrap the cloth around both sides at the same time. The mast is 15mm at its widest point. Not sure if the leading edge is too sharp a curve for the carbon fiber to bend around without something holding it in place.

Any tips for the wings? I was thinking of doing the same as the mast. I expect I'll only do one or two layers, the front wing is 3 layers of ply making 15mm at the thickest point, the back wing 2 layers of ply making 10mm.

Do you put a gloss coat on?

Thanks! :thumb:

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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby plummet » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:12 am

I haven't built my hydrofoil yet. But I have build many carbon fiber boards of various designs.

My call. You do have access to vacuum!
Make your own vac bag set up out of an old fridge pump. It will cost you virtually nothing!!!... Just a bid of research and scrounging around finding and old clapped out fridge.

If you have more than one layer of cosmetic carbon I think vac bag or similar technology is neccessary.

Why?

Your resin ratio will be way too high with a standard lay up. layers a suspended further apart and less efficient with a hand lay up.

Why go to the extra expense of carbon when your going to waste all the potential additional weight savings and some of the strength with a resin rich hand lay up?

Learn how to vac bag then do it.

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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby kjorn » Mon Mar 16, 2015 1:46 am

What do you mean when you say cosmetic carbon?

For the vertical strut that needs 4 or 5 layers of carbon, how would you go about making it?

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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby plummet » Mon Mar 16, 2015 3:51 am

What I mean by cosmetic carbon is this.

If you want to put a thin layer of carbon onto something to make it look like a carbon object then a normal wet hand layup is acceptable.

But. Multiple layer reinforcement needs compression by way of vacuum or mechanical press for best results. It squeezes out excess resin and compacts the layers closely together. It make a more efficient stronger layup.

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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby jplmain » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:30 am

I think you should learn to make molds either one shot cheaper molds or more long last molds. You will get higher pressure, lighter, and more precise configurations.

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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby Blackrat » Mon Mar 16, 2015 8:23 am

as mentioned, your part will be much better with a vacuum pump and i highly recommend it !!

but saying that, nothing wrong with your idea on leading edge up and wrapping over carbon over the leading edge , i mean thats pretty much how they been doing surfboards for the past how many ever years

you will need atleast 4 layers of 200gram , i would have two layers at 45 and the other at 0-90

take pics :D

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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby kjorn » Mon Mar 16, 2015 11:05 am

Blackrat wrote:i mean thats pretty much how they been doing surfboards for the past how many ever years
That's what I was thinking, I've made surfboards and they turned out fine. I've never used carbon fibre before, but watching some youtube vids the end result of bagging looks pretty close to how my boards looked after glassing. You could see the weave of cloth barely covered with resin.

If I do go the bagging route, do I do all layers at the same time? Or one at a time?

My mast is attached to my fuselage, how the heck do you wrap all of that in carbon and epoxy, then get it in the bag? It sounds messy. I was thinking of doing the join where the two meet with some layers. Curing. Then doing the mast (4 or 5 layers). Then doing the fuselage (4 or 5 layers). Does that make sense?

The epoxy and carbon will cost me a lot of money, I want to get it as good as I can!

Thanks for the help!

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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby tkettlepoint » Mon Mar 16, 2015 12:13 pm

4 layers of carbon on the strut/mast.. hm I guess my 15 layers are over kill... but I know I 214lb person can stand in the middle of it and it barely flexs with it being 11.8mm thick.

get 2 pieces of plexy ( 4-6mm thick) glass tape them together on one side , then you can fold it around the carbon and core to make skin perfect.

If you are doing a core make sure you have enough carbon because you are standing on a 3 foot knife between your legs. If you know what I mean, you need more uni then BIax


Do a wet prepreg when you lay it up ( put resin on the cloth squeegee it out then lay in on the core , this will get you close to the 40-50% mark carbon to resin, 50 is alittle high but will work if you put peel ply and something to soak up the extra epoxy..) the first one you will have alittle extra which will make it alittle heavier but you won't have any dry spots


just my two cents hope it helps
terrie
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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby Denisesewa » Mon Mar 16, 2015 4:47 pm

Hand layup isnt easy but acceptable results can be obtained, I did mine that way and the stiffness, twist and overall weight are right in line with the average production foil but I have had alot of experience with hand layup.
If you are determined to do it this way you may find some helpful info in my build thread >> viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2386805 <<
Vacume bagging is more efficient but plenty of people have made foils by hand. the biggest issue is unlike glass where you can see through and know you have complete wetout of the cloth and adhesion to the core carbon takes a certain amount of experience and testing to know you have good results with minimum resin, Never do your glassing on rising temperatures as air in the core will expand and cause air pockets.
Just my thoughts on the subject.

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Re: Your carbon fibre/fiber tips please!

Postby tkettlepoint » Mon Mar 16, 2015 5:26 pm

I will say Denis knows how to do hand layup... his foils are a work of art for sure and all done by hand layup.

Terrie
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