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my learning progession on a hydrofoil

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Kamikuza
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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:41 am

plummet wrote:But what if you downsized to a lot smaller sonic that the speed? say 15m? My 12 chrono is way more efficient that my old 15m speed for low end. So you may be able to get a smaller kite with similar low end to the 21m and be a lot faster to turn.
Because, it wouldn't have the grunt of the bigger kite :roll: When I need to use the biggest kite, there's simply no time to wait for the kite to get around on the upstroke so it needs to have made max power and gotten me foiling on the upstroke. This is why I can get away with smaller faster kites when the wind is (almost as) light -- you just have to get onto the board to get foiling and riding, and gybes are still successful because you don't have to wait days for the kite to get around. The 10m gets very close to the bottom end of the 21 and I'm sure if it wasn't a heavy old 7-strut dog, it'd get even closer.

In the midst of summer, the wind can hold steady at 5 or 6 knots and while the 10m won't even fly, the 21 will and it's a piece of cake to ride. Almost any other time of year, the wind is too variable for me to risk the big foil. I've tried the 15 and 12 as very light wind kites, but I simply have all the problems (and more) of the big kite without the grunt. Even the 60kg local who has 15m Chrono as their light wind kites prefer to use their Chrono 9.

I know the S3 is way long in the tooth and the new ones are better, but I simply prefer the LEI for the kind of foil riding I like to do. And I've come to the conclusion that foils smaller than 15 and tubes bigger than 13 are a waste of time for me.

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Kamikuza
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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby Kamikuza » Thu Dec 08, 2016 2:44 am

Mossy 757 wrote:
plummet wrote:But what if you downsized to a lot smaller sonic that the speed?
^ This.

There are about a half dozen really good modern foil kites that will blow you away with turning performance that will cover a similar/same wind range as an older and larger sized Speed3. Not to take anything away from the Speed3, but it's nowhere near the state of the art for what's out there right now...
I reckon the Sonic 18 is just a tad faster than 15 Speed3 and almost as grunty as the 21, but much more fun. Especially on the TT :lol:

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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby plummet » Sun Dec 11, 2016 6:07 pm

Another session yesterday, do a 30km downwinder. half of it on the foil. Conditions where stupid for foiling. Well out of my depth. 3m swell short period steep fast swell. 25-30+ knots. waves around head high to double head. Fuck that was incredibly hard. Used my 6m reo which was fine going crosswind upwind. But going down wind with the fast running swell was out of control. I needed Peters 3.5m. Even then I think it would have been out of control with my current skill level. The push of the swell a lone was super fast. I stayed out outside the line up as I would have been crucified on the inside. Save to say I bit of more than I could chew on the foil yesterday.

Here's a picture from the from last year when I did the same down winder. Pretty much copy cat conditions.
12307492_1238352629513996_4686672675488845316_o.jpg

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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby juandesooka » Sun Dec 11, 2016 11:10 pm

That's interesting Plummet. I am just slightly ahead of you on learning curve, but that's where my current focus is ... when running downwind in swells, when just on verge of over-powered, how to maintain control? My experience [though in much smaller waves and much lighter wind! ;-) ] is dropping in, feeling the acceleration, then riding fast on "tip toes" with kite directly over-head, trying to regain enough control to make a turn. I find it is the same experience as riding a surfboard strapless when over-powered in waves ... and I know the answer, need to turn quicker! Carve the bottom turn hard, then a quick top turn, then back to bottom....link those turns. Much like when skiing a steep slope, you don't go straight down, you carve back and forth to keep speed manageable, I figure it's pretty much the same here.

So there's the training challenge. In linking turns, I find there's a moment in the transition where you are leaning downwind of your foil, which feels super awkward....in this move, speed is your friend, if you pause half way or don't go for it, kaplooey.

For me, I also need to trust in the speed capabilities of my foil. I am used to the original carafino, where above a certain speed it all explodes, so better to jump off in a controlled way before a painful wipeout. Whereas with my new foil, I am riding out the wave drop-in accelerations in increasingly uncomfortable speeds....and finding I am pleasantly surprised to make it. So.....have to trust the foil and your abilities enough to make those high speed bottom turns! (and maybe a canard foil will help with this, perhaps less likely to lose lift in turn if front wing breaches....we'll see)

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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby plummet » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:11 am

I did a 5km upwinder downwinder in nice balmy 1m swell, 15-18 knots last week, I can do nice downlooping and kite signing foiling turns in those conditions. But this was not normal conditions. It was supercharged fast as fuck swell. packed close together with a 5-7 second period. I tried the my normal signing and looping technique but that equaled warp factor 75 when the swell energy also hit.

Man it was crazy.

I whipped the foil off at the halfway mark and did the rest mutant for the rest. That was still full speed balls to the wall wave after wave after wave after wave... But I'm all over the mutant riding in the waves. I was slashing up a storm into the steepest sections.toeside, healsideslashes the whole wave down. Fantastic.

I wonder if i'll ever get to that level of confidence and skill to smash the foil with the same reckless abandon? Will you always have to carry some level of conservative approach knowing you could slam at any time?

On a side note. When ever i went cross wind/ upwind, even the downwind sections i wasn't being pushes at super speed by the swell. I could handle that. Man the lift of the fast moving swell going out was incredable. Sometimes it was way to steep to even consider trying to flow through the swells. I would punch off the top of the swell and jump.

Anyway. It was an experience. And i certainly will have improved my downwinding technique because of it.

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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby geopeck » Mon Dec 12, 2016 12:24 am

Hey Plummet there's lots of people out here who would be super stoked to be riding those conditions on their regular gear and you're having a hard time on your foil. I think I speak for many of us when I say stop grinning so damn loud.

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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby plummet » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:34 pm

2.5 months in and i'm getting some natural zen going. I'm water starting easy as. Jumping is coming on naturally. yesterday I jumped over a shoulder high dumping wave on the way out. Wohoo. That opens up a lot bigger swell days if I can jump some of the sets that would otherwise punish me!. I punched of the top of a head and a half pitching lip yesterday also. Woohoo got some height of that one. I've changed to a 7 rebel from 8m catalyst as my mainstay kite. The extra lift of the rebel is helping with the jumping too.

On a side note. I notice when I am on a high lift kite (with the kite higher) I have a slower stall speed than the low lift kite. I can run a lot slower with a liftier kite. I'm thinking too a liftier kite will be able to get away with less aoa on the back wing. Though I haven't testing this yet.

Interestingly the whistling of the foil has reduced as well. I notice when I am pitch and speed stable there is no whistle. Its only when I increase speed and change height that I get the noise.

I'm crashing considerably less now. The random crashes are maybe 1 or 2 per ride. I understand that with my chop/swell combo I need to keep the foil deep to stop ventilation. When ever there's a flat section I can go high. But for the most part my conditions mean deep foil.

So I am pretty much all go with the exception of jybing which I still suck at! but i'm slowly improving and getting further through the jybe before crashing.

I'm starting to edge into waves now. I'm finding that a bit weird as the wave doesn't push you like when on the surface. I edged into a head high+ face yesterday and (this has happened a couple of times now) The wave energy seems to represent its self as increased lift on the foil rather than a push. So when the wave energy increases dramtically The foil has simply lifted out of the water. I've got to figure out how to prepare for that extra lift.

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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby Mossy 757 » Tue Dec 20, 2016 6:42 pm

For dropping in, I've found that cutting a line across the shoulder instead of heading towards the beach gets you way from the critical part of the wave, where you can then cut back and get into that sweet spot once your power/speed/kite position is sorted out for the "on the face" riding.

As a side note, the second you get a butter flat day with a stead 12 knots of breeze you're going to feel like a hydrofoiling super hero. The conditions you're practicing in will make a flat day seem like magic.

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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby meteo » Thu Dec 22, 2016 11:57 pm

Outing 208 to 229, hours 267 to 293, November the 6 to December the 22.

I finally learned something new… or almost… I can now do a complete aerial jibe including foot change… I had already done it on my FUN foil Liquid Force one year ago on December the 8, but now I do it at higher speed on my spotz TUNA… Not as difficult as I thought it would be… you just have to be “confident” … the foil is super stable and you can have both feet in front and you have at least half a second to change your “old” front foot onto the back of the board to continue on a foiling stance… my wife took a video of my doing it… It is super uneventful… I am riding heel side, all of sudden I am carving for the turn and I wind up still heel side in the other direction… then in the slow motion you can see me change my feet from heel side to toe side just before carving for the turn…

Got to try this brand NEW foil kite called PULSION by ConceptAir… I had the 15m2… this kite is the answer to my prayers… It just does not falls out of the sky… it is not a racing foil kite, so it is not as “HIGH” aspect… so the tips do not tend to fold inside, and the kite just waits up there in the air for you to prepare yourself to launch while you’re walking to reach deep water and there is only 6 kts of wind…

I am now close to my maximum abilities… I have already did more than one full aerial duck tuck and many aerial jibes… but I am still missing many… I have to prepare myself mentally before attacking them and still… I miss more than a few… But I see.. that with practice I think they will eventually become second nature…

The only problem with my progression is the number of hours I have done… almost 300 hours of foiling in 20 months… most of my friends that have bought a foil this summer, have done less than 20 hours and won’t be getting on it until next spring

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Re: my learning progession on a hydrofoil

Postby jespin4845 » Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:19 am

plummet wrote:2.5 months in and i'm getting some natural zen going. I'm water starting easy as. Jumping is coming on naturally. yesterday I jumped over a shoulder high dumping wave on the way out. Wohoo. That opens up a lot bigger swell days if I can jump some of the sets that would otherwise punish me!. I punched of the top of a head and a half pitching lip yesterday also. Woohoo got some height of that one. I've changed to a 7 rebel from 8m catalyst as my mainstay kite. The extra lift of the rebel is helping with the jumping too.

On a side note. I notice when I am on a high lift kite (with the kite higher) I have a slower stall speed than the low lift kite. I can run a lot slower with a liftier kite. I'm thinking too a liftier kite will be able to get away with less aoa on the back wing. Though I haven't testing this yet.

Interestingly the whistling of the foil has reduced as well. I notice when I am pitch and speed stable there is no whistle. Its only when I increase speed and change height that I get the noise.

I'm crashing considerably less now. The random crashes are maybe 1 or 2 per ride. I understand that with my chop/swell combo I need to keep the foil deep to stop ventilation. When ever there's a flat section I can go high. But for the most part my conditions mean deep foil.

So I am pretty much all go with the exception of jybing which I still suck at! but i'm slowly improving and getting further through the jybe before crashing.

I'm starting to edge into waves now. I'm finding that a bit weird as the wave doesn't push you like when on the surface. I edged into a head high+ face yesterday and (this has happened a couple of times now) The wave energy seems to represent its self as increased lift on the foil rather than a push. So when the wave energy increases dramtically The foil has simply lifted out of the water. I've got to figure out how to prepare for that extra lift.
coming on the wave u really have to lay in the front foot, shut the kite off to prevent kite lift and find that connection with the lift of the wave....not too much cause u will haul ass down the wave face, u know that happy medium


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