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Moses front wings - a guide

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BraCuru
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Moses front wings - a guide

Postby BraCuru » Thu Jun 25, 2015 8:35 am

I believe this post will be helpful for Moses riders, especially for those planning to buy Silente.
I'm opening it in a separate topic as it would be hard to find it in the main Moses topic in future:
viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2388923

Moses makes three front wings and a back stabilizer. All of them can be rigged on the Silente mast. Such variety gives 3 rigging options to choose. Which one would you choose ?
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Hope my findings will help you to decide. I tested these wings in various conditions riding them for about a week with Silente mast, T20 or Bracuru Race boards and Cabrinha Velocity 7 or 10 m. My weight is 78kg, height 175, skills – advanced (strapless, racing, jumping). So far I tested around a dozen of various foils.

This is the family of three Silente front wings:
FR450 – learning wing; max span 453mm; center line length 256mm, aspect ratio 2,7.
FR425 – pure freeride wing; max span 424mm; center line length 244mm, aspect ratio 2,7.
HP485 – high performance wing; max span 485mm; center line length 218mm, aspect ratio 4,9.
Stabilizer MST270 (back wing) - max span 270mm, center line length 126; aspect ratio 3,3.
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Before the test results please remember that:
- all Silente foils do not sink. Once detached from any reason they float on the surface. I think this fact is important, especially for the learners.
- Silente mast is made with fuselage in one piece. Disadvantage – not so easy for travelling like any detachable fuselage. Advantage – solid stiffness of the foil.

Image

Let’s grill the big mama first - FR450
From official website:
Similar to FR425, the Front Wing FR450 is the solution for people that want more lift from their Silente Hydrofoil. It is especially designed for free ride use: the shape helps in stability and easy riding; the wing gives lift even at low speed. Perfect use for beginners and upwind conditions.

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FR450 pros:
1. It requires really small speed to keep foiling (probably speed of 5kts will do).
2. Must be one of the easiest wings on the market for learning. Why?
You may be surprised - because it is slow. An experienced rider will feel it too sluggish.
On the other hand, slow means more forgiving, more time to react, easier to control – something required by beginners. Imagine that your learning wing wants to accelerate above 30kts on your first downwind legs. That’s horrifying for all learners.
It’s rather difficult to accelerate on it above 20kts.
My average speeds on a choppy and wavy Baltic waters (using 7 and 10m kites) were:
- upwind – 12-13kts
- downwind – 15-17kts
- on the reach 15-19kts.
When you compare it with other Moses wings the real speed’s differences are not so visible. However dramatic difference is in feeling of the speed among them. FR450 feels like driving a heavy duty van while HP485 like a sport car.
3. Upwind angles: max 53 degrees; average 57 degrees – not bad for such a fat lady with low AR.
4. Downwind angles: max 145 degrees; average 140 degrees – more than I was expecting.
5. Solid construction – it’s not so sensitive for impacts like most of high AR carbon foils. Note that its short span minimizes the risk of bottom impact. If damaged – easy to repair.

FR450 cons:
1. Drag – you can clearly feel it and even hear it.
2. It requires the same speed to lift as FR425. I was expecting that it will begin to foil visible earlier than other wings. I was wrong.
3. Not for racing!
4. Stability is fine but do not expect the same stability as high AR foils.
5. Learning air jibes and tacks – not so easy as high AR foils.

My summary:
This is a very specialized wing dedicated only for the first steps learners or heavy riders above 100kg who wants to foil below 10kts too. This wing will become boring and too slow once you reach the advanced level. I will recommend it as well to all beginners who can sale this wing later or to keep it as a spare one with FR425 or HP485 or want to teach somebody else on their own foil in future.
If you are heavy rider and want to ride in winds above 10kts go for FR425 directly.
Not sure how it behaves in waves. Its slow speed and drag may be handy.
The best board choice – FR450 will like any big & fat board – T40 or bigger.
However I haven’t tested it with a strapless wave board. Will share later.
The surface area of big mama is around 20% bigger than FR425.

Mercedes-Benz cars’ analogy: Vito Furgon with 65kW diesel engine.

Now about bestseller FR425.
From official website:
The Front Wing FR425 is the best solution for Silente Hydrofoil. It is especially designed for free ride use: the shape helps in stability and easy riding; the wing gives lift even at low speed. Perfect use for beginners and upwind conditions.

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FR425 pros:
1. An ultimate freeride wing which will work in various conditions for all riders.
2. Perfect for strapless boards – turns really tight, well balanced, foils at really slow speeds.
3. Perfect for waves – if you are an ocean rider then you will love riding the swell or even play in the breaking zone. For me it is the best wave wing I’ve tested.
4. Solid construction – more impact resistant than the most of carbon foils. The short span minimizes the risk of bottom impact. If damaged – easy to repair.
5. Speed. It creates feeling of fast speed despite of that, it is still a slow wing (same weather conditions as for FR450):
- upwind – 14-15kts
- downwind – 16-19kts
- on the reach 17-21kts.
6. Upwind angles: max 53 degrees; average 56 degrees – the same as FR450
7. Downwind angles: max 150 degrees; average 145 degrees – a bit better than FR450

FR425 cons:
1. Not for racing.
2. Not so easy for air jibes and tacks as high AR foils.
3. Otherwise hard to find anything wrong for any freeride rider.

My summary:
This is very comfortable, easy to learn, pure freeride wing. Love it with strapless board and playing in waves. I would say: the best all-in-one known to me. Freefun toy!
If you are about fun of foilboarding this is a good one which will serve you in all conditions and for long time. I would recommend it for beginners, intermediate and advanced riders.
The best board choice – any board. T20 & T40 would work well. Any adopted wave board or Twintip will do good too.

Mercedes-Benz cars’ analogy: Class C with diesel 85kW.

The last one on the test - HP485.
This wing has much higher AR – around 5.

From official website:
The High Performance Front Wing HP485 is the solution that best fit Silente Hydrofoil and speed request. This wing has littler chord for reduce drag, higher span length for the right lift force. The result is an higher Aspect Ratio that improve hydrodynamic efficiency, without any loss of stability.

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HP485 pros:
1. An unique freeride wing with some aspects of freerace. It will work in various conditions for all intermediate and above riders.
2. Still good for strapless boards but the best with bigger boards with straps.
3. Construction looks solid but cannot say too much – just a week of riding.
4. Speeds:
- upwind – 14-16kts
- downwind – 17-20kts
- on the reach 20-22kts.
5. Upwind angles: max 50 degrees; average 53 degrees.
6. Downwind angles: max 150 degrees; average 145 degrees – the same as FR425.
7. Stability better than FR wings.

HP485 cons:
1. Still not for racing despite impression of high speed foil.
2. Not so easy for air jibes and tacks as high AR foils.
3. Otherwise hard to find anything wrong about this wing for a freeride/freerace rider.

My summary:
This wing gives very smooth ride and feeling of high speed despite it is not a speed monster.
I highly recommend it to all Silente riders as a second wing.
The best board choice would be T20, T40 and bigger boards with straps.

Mercedes-Benz cars’ analogy: SLK automatic.

One more thing - if you are going to buy Moses Silente I would recommend to purchase one of the FR wings plus HP485 at once. Why?
Because you will have a spare wing and you will be able to match Silente to various conditions, boards, riding styles and your mood :D
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Moses HF prepares new toy for the racers. It will be probably called VoRace 2. Sticking to car’s analogy I hope it will be Mercedes Formula 1. Don’t know too much about it – difficult to predict if it’s going to be:
http://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/car/f1-w06-hybrid/
or any of the earlier versions :wink:

The latest news: Moses is going to release new stabilizer for the high performance front wing very soon. It will be HP stabilizer 320mm with the aspect ratio 4,7.
Official info:
High Performance wing needs the proper stabilizer that supplies the stability and control at higher speed. This is the aim of the Stabilizer 320mm: this rear wing keeps the high stability of Silente, with a reduction of drag that improves the efficiency of the whole hydrofoil.
I will do another tests once I got it.

Good winds and enjoy great fun of foilboarding!
Last edited by BraCuru on Sat Mar 04, 2017 6:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.

BraCuru
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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby BraCuru » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:22 pm

The Moses Silente family of front wings gets new sister - MHP560
http://www.moseshydrofoil.com/ala-high- ... -mhp560srg

This is a toy for Silente riders who want to:
- race,
- easily learn air jibes and tacks.

It comes with a race stabilizer:
http://www.moseshydrofoil.com/stabilizz ... o-mst330sg

I love this versatility of the Silente.
One drift with 4 different front wings allowing high performance in freeride, racing, waves and doing first steps in foilboarding!

crazysurf
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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby crazysurf » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:15 pm

Looks great but no 330s in stock!

Jollydriver
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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby Jollydriver » Wed Nov 04, 2015 9:34 pm

crazysurf wrote:Looks great but no 330s in stock!
Hmm. When I look, there are 330s in matte in stock, just no gloss ones.

JD

BraCuru
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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby BraCuru » Thu Nov 26, 2015 11:07 pm

I got the latest wings including Vorace.
Will be testing it after 7th December.
New Vorace looks better in reality than on the pictures.
All Moses family at one place ;)

HP560 for Vorace + HP560 for Silente
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Evolution of front wings:
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Evolution of stabilisers:
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BraCuru
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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby BraCuru » Sat Feb 06, 2016 4:50 am

Finally managed to test the Silente HP560 set up thoroughly.
HP560 wings provide smooth ride and a lot of fun for anybody except beginners.
This is the must for all riders possessing Silente strut and feel comfortable riding a hydrofoil.

It will take you to a new chapter in the foil progress.

First of all - learning air jibes and tacks is dead simple comparing with FR425 or FR450.
I needed just two hours of practice to do air tacks and jibes regularly once connected the HP560.

Secondly I would recommend it for guys who want to compete in racing but have no ambitions to be at top in the international scene.
For those: go directly for new Vorace.

Silente HP560 rides well upwind and downwind. Speed might be the issue for racers (due to a thick fuselage).
Below there is a picture of today's warm up session on 10m in 10-14kts:
Image

I can spot an angle of 45 degrees upwind ish!
However new Vorace goes visibly faster and probably performs upwind & downwind better.

At last - it does not play any music! Going downwind in light winds is just amazing. Total silence. Even on my 3 years old strut

BraCuru
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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby BraCuru » Tue Apr 05, 2016 1:05 pm

Time for my update.
Firstly - have a look on the wings extreme outlines FR450 vs HP580. For me, it shows versatility of the foilboarding:
Image
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Secondly - time for visual comparison between HP560 and HP 580. I thought that it would be just a difference in a span. Once I got the HP580 I realised about the scale of differences.

General views:
UP:
Image
DOWN:
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The AR:
- HP560 is 6.3 - http://www.moseshydrofoil.com/ala-high- ... -mhp560srg
- HP580 is 7.2 - http://www.moseshydrofoil.com/ala-compe ... -mhp580vrm

Surface (the leading edges are matching):
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HP580 is 2cm slimmer on the most of the span.

Profiles:
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Stabilizers' profiles:
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Note:
HP560 is produced in two options to fit Silente and Vorace struts.
HP580 - only in one to fit Vorace strut - pure racing machine.

stevez
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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby stevez » Mon Apr 25, 2016 10:23 pm

Continued from viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2388923&p=926918
Frank Rosin wrote:The FR425 and the HP560 (with the correct stabilizers of course, they can not be mixed!) are very different wings, that feel very different.
If you are used to riding the FR425 it is normal that you'll need a bit of riding to adjust to the HP560, but once you have done that I am pretty sure you will most likely not like to ride the FR425 anymore.
There is a reason it is not on offer anymore.
The HP560 wing set is fantastic!

Cheers,
Frank
http://www.famousfrank.com/hydrofoil
Thanks Frank. Now that I've started with it, I'll persist with the new one until I've got the hang of it, then I'll be in a better position to compare. I did try the new stabiliser wing with the old front wing. It was ok, didn't seem to make that much of a difference, was still fine to ride. I suspect the the other way around would not work well.

One thing I must say is that the build quality of the new wing is superb, and it was a very reasonably priced upgrade as well, especially compared to what other spare wings seem to cost.

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danbrazil
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Gear: Kites: bandit VIII 11m, Bandit VII 9m
Boards: f-one TRAX, raceboard prototype, Arriba Arriba Hydrofoil 130cm carbon
Foil: Moses Silent Carbon, Wings: FR450 and HP560
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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby danbrazil » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:07 pm

stevez wrote:Continued from viewtopic.php?p=926918#p926918
stevez wrote:
BraCuru wrote: Should be good! Let us know how is your progress.
Finally had my first session on the 560 - quite humbling after feeling nice and comfortable on the 425.
I found myself porpoising up and down like crazy to start. It seems to stall quite easily - maybe the missing ingredient was speed. But when I did put on the gas to build up speed I found the lift much more than I was used to, and had difficulty controlling this. I did have the odd sort of decent run towards the end, but nothing where I had any understanding what I was doing differently.
I was kind of hoping I'd be able to just get up and ride the thing, and not to have to go on yet another learning curve, but I guess it would have been unrealistic to suppose that I'd have it dialed after one session!
As a wing for absolute beginners to learn on, I'm not sure if this one would be ideal. But maybe it's just different rather than harder. It does like to go straight more than I found the 425 to do when I was starting on that, which may make it easier to ride when the board is still on the water.

Hello stevez, I had my first session on the 560 today as well, upgrading from the 450, on which I was riding fast and stable, doing jumps and toeside, but failing miserably on jibes and tacks.

I had the same experience as you, going up and down like crazy on the first runs. I tried moving both front and rear straps do the most forward position on the board (arriba arriba full carbon 142cm), but somehow I still felt like my position was way off, I had to really push down on the front foot to keep it steady.

I will try again tomorrow, and hopefully it is just a muscle memory issue, and it will get better. I only hope it is not an issue with my board, meaning the straps positions in relation to the lift position, as I have moved them to the most forward position there is and I still had to take my feet off the straps to move them closer to the front in order to prevent it from going up and down.

Sometimes it was like I was balancing myself only on the front foot to get the proper force needed to make it stable. :lol:

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Re: Moses Silente front wings - a guide

Postby Frank Rosin » Wed Apr 27, 2016 1:11 am

Some good pics of the board plus maybe even some measurements (foil plate position, straps positions) would help to try to judge what you experienced.

Cheers,
Frank
www.famousfrank.com/hydrofoil


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