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WindFoil - KiteFoil

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Peter_Frank
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WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Dec 13, 2015 7:20 pm

Slightly off topic maybe, but Kai and me were out yesterday, he had his very first session on his new Horue Windfoil, and managed to ride after a while only.

Air and water around 4 degree (39 F), but sunny at first so okay.

It was awesome to share this "first" experience, especially because I think many of us are both surfers and windsurfers and kitesurfers :thumb:

Image

More pictures if anyone interested (a blog from our sessions yesterday, in Danish but pictures are international right ?): http://kitesurferen.dk/component/easybl ... 3#comments

8) PF

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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby Horst Sergio » Mon Dec 14, 2015 2:52 am

Nice picture :thumb: ..

and I don't think it's off topic. I was close to open a similar thread. For sure many kite-foilers are kiters from first hours with a windsurfing history too and therefore interested in windfoils, especially, if there is chance for dual-use.
As I have seen French community is, once again, far ahead.
My questions to all manufacturers and users are:

1. What are the main design differences between wind and kite foils?
Apart from, as I understand it till now:
a) bigger and more lifting front wings without anhedral
b) stronger fuselage (frontwing to mast conections)
c) shorter masts

2. Are there more kitefoils that are reasonable useful as windfoil apart from those sold for both like the horue windfoil?
For example the Zeeko Alloy with the high lifting carbon-freeride-wing or the Levitaz with its strong fuselage. And does a plate-connection influence the take-off significantly?

3. As I imaging: reaching deep water with a windfoil under some onshore conditions could be pretty impossible/difficult: Has anybody ever thought about a windfoil construction with a double folding board to mast (similar to daggerboard) and mast to fuselage conection, which allows starting like a normal Board and (dis-)assembling by two strings and a threaded bar (through the alloy mast) that tensions the system when running?


Phil, Nicolas, Adrian ... any thoughts,

thanks Bernd

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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby revhed » Mon Dec 14, 2015 9:00 am

So once again we have the chance to choose the the best english terminology , words, for this.
Using the term "Wind foil" is so ambigious, can be either a kite or kite foil board, Propeller blade, and now a sailboard hydrofoil also?
So I propose,
STRUT, as everyone knows! Still fighting! It has never been a "mat" , "mast" in english and never will be!
Ram Air, best, or foil kite. RA
LEI is perfect!
Kite Board Hydro Foil, KBHF or kite board foil, KBF, using hydro seems more discriptive!

Sail Board Hydro Foil, SBHF or Sail Board Foil. SBF.

Note that it should not be called a "windsurf foilboard" as this would apply only when flown in waves, just as one does not windsurf in flat water.
Just because as a few may remember, here in France the sport was called "flysurf" so wrong and thankfully not used, does not mean because someone here
choose to call Sail board hydrofoiling "windfoil" makes it ok!
Windfoil, simply the incorrect term for this sport.
Sail Board Hydro Foil, SBHF, maybe Sail Board Foil, SBF
Ideas? :idea:
R H

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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Dec 14, 2015 10:18 am

Horst Sergio wrote:Nice picture :thumb: ..

and I don't think it's off topic. I was close to open a similar thread. For sure many kite-foilers are kiters from first hours with a windsurfing history too and therefore interested in windfoils, especially, if there is chance for dual-use.
As I have seen French community is, once again, far ahead.
My questions to all manufacturers and users are:

1. What are the main design differences between wind and kite foils?
Apart from, as I understand it till now:
a) bigger and more lifting front wings without anhedral
b) stronger fuselage (frontwing to mast conections)
c) shorter masts

2. Are there more kitefoils that are reasonable useful as windfoil apart from those sold for both like the horue windfoil?
For example the Zeeko Alloy with the high lifting carbon-freeride-wing or the Levitaz with its strong fuselage. And does a plate-connection influence the take-off significantly?

3. As I imaging: reaching deep water with a windfoil under some onshore conditions could be pretty impossible/difficult: Has anybody ever thought about a windfoil construction with a double folding board to mast (similar to daggerboard) and mast to fuselage conection, which allows starting like a normal Board and (dis-)assembling by two strings and a threaded bar (through the alloy mast) that tensions the system when running?


Phil, Nicolas, Adrian ... any thoughts,

thanks Bernd
1a. They have anhedral too, and only bigger in size when learning, just like for kitehydrofoils.
So smaller and faster are offered too, by Horue.
1b and 1c, I dont see any difference wind-kitefoil really ?

1extra. To fit in trim for a windsurfer with a tuttle box, you need to have the wing further forward, either by having a wing or even mast forward sweep, or bigger distance wing to mast, or both.
Which eventually would lead to 1b suddenly being the case :wink:

2. I am pretty sure you could use every kite hydrofoil as a windfoil, if you mount the box or plate a bit further forward.
Of course, I dont know for sure if any differences - but I dont see any.

3. In my view, it would be easier to get out to deep water, particulary in light or marginal winds - as you can go out till you can just reach the bottom, and from there, uphaul or waterstart if windy, and then ride extremely slow so IF hitting something, the risk of destruction is minimal, compared to a kitefoil where we go faster trying to stay afloat on our small boards, and always losing upwind when starting in onshore so we might hit the bottom on kitefoils ?
Windfoil you can also put the board upside down foil sticking up, sail in the water, and swim out - easy compared to fighting/looping a kite in marginal winds and onshore.


For long distance trips, I see a windfoil much better than a kitefoil, because you dont have the issue that you go down if the wind stops.
You could in reality stop and eat your lunch, while waiting for a few knots of wind - which will be sufficient for slowly getting ashore.
Much safer than a hydrofoil, where we have to swim with the kite rolled or packed down, on a small board - and no chance of a relaunch once packed down.

The downside is the depth of course - not better nor worse than a kitefoil, but scary if going into "new land" on trips :o
Upside is again, you can go ultra slow so able to watch whats underneath :naughty: - not really possible with a kitefoil :(

8) Peter

PS: It has always been called a "windsurfer" here, so everybody knows what that is, and it is a common national word in different national dictionaries.
If I were to use the word "sailboarder" (existed as a windsurf magazine in the past I recall), nobody would know what I was talking about :-?

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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby ronnie » Mon Dec 14, 2015 11:36 am

Windfoils are just starting to be become popular.

A Horue board designed as a WindFoil board, 2m long 95 litres.



Taaroa windfoil.



This one has been in production since 2010


Strapless version.

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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby renaudbarbier » Tue Dec 15, 2015 7:27 pm



Our manta is also usable on windfoil thanks to a new front wing (yet to be released).

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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby Starsky » Tue Dec 15, 2015 8:20 pm

Be interesting to see how many take it up. In my experience those still windsurfing are practically purposefully closed to new ideas. Sent one of the vids to an old windsurfing buddy and got the same response I used to get when trying to get him into kites. In fact he said something like: No thanks looks like windsurfing on a monorail and that he needs the chaos of the surface to have any fun..... One of those things said only by someone who has never flown on a foil !!! When guys like that start complaining about lack of wind, I openly laugh.

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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Dec 15, 2015 11:08 pm

Starsky wrote:Be interesting to see how many take it up. In my experience those still windsurfing are practically purposefully closed to new ideas. Sent one of the vids to an old windsurfing buddy and got the same response I used to get when trying to get him into kites. In fact he said something like: No thanks looks like windsurfing on a monorail and that he needs the chaos of the surface to have any fun..... One of those things said only by someone who has never flown on a foil !!! When guys like that start complaining about lack of wind, I openly laugh.
Hilarious - and indeed we often hope for LESS wind these days now, the opposite world :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby ronnie » Wed Dec 16, 2015 12:25 am

I think the selling point for windsurfers is that you can maybe sail in lighter winds with smaller sails and boards.
Currently no boards are built both for normal windsurfing and windfoiling, and no specialist sails are made.
So it's early in the development, but the efficiency of the foil is worth developing to see what can be done.



110 litre board 7.3m sail and a claimed 8 knots of wind. Yes lawn mowing, but maybe they can tack and gybe in light wind in the future.


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Re: WindFoil - KiteFoil

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 16, 2015 2:09 am

Truly amazing the windfoils are starting now ?

On the other hand, the kitefoils has just begun to "explode" all over the world the last two years. in serious numbers, eventhough it has existed for more than 10 years :rollgrin:

8) Peter


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