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Canard Foil

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ronnie
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby ronnie » Mon May 15, 2017 10:03 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Mon May 15, 2017 3:47 pm
20170512_123755_resized-1.jpg

Couple photos. Based off stringy fuselage. I might try experimenting with removing the spacer on front wing. Though maybe that provides some yaw control? Dunno....going to take a little monkeying around....or need to get used to it. Harder than I thought it would be!
The Spitfire has the front wing higher than the rear wing. Is there not a risk that with the front wing lower than the rear, there may be some effect of the front wing on the flow over the ear wing??

juandesooka
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby juandesooka » Mon May 15, 2017 11:12 pm

Very well might make a difference! There seems to be some debate online about pros and cons for which one should be higher or if they should be mounted even. Seemed to be more speculating than anything -- I wonder if it actually makes a difference? (for free ride foils, race is another story)

The spitfire has front higher, but only by the 1" thickness of fuselage....so pretty close to even.

Crazyfoil (the only other production canard) had the front wing lower by quite a bit, maybe 4-5". Though it didn't exactly get stellar reviews.

I am working with the fuselage I have, so the choice was somewhat made for me. I anticipate the main issue may be balancing the lift effects ... which hopefully will be something that can be adapted by riding style and practice.

Zeeko
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby Zeeko » Tue May 16, 2017 7:08 am

Hi,

for some tips
when you design a 'canard' foil, the trimming of the AoA, the design of the wing have a major impact on the behavior.
We spent almost one year to find the right balance of all the parameters (Profil, wing span, fabric, level of the wings compare to the other).
But the result is a dream.

Here is my last edit about the canard design

ride easy
Nicolas

juandesooka
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby juandesooka » Tue May 16, 2017 8:14 am

Sweet video Nicolas.. .graceful powerful carving. Surf style turns on the tail. That's pretty much the goal right there!

Appreciate you blazing the trail. And thanks for the tips too ... going to be a fun summer of tinkering, see if I can make these diy wings fly. Stoked.

juandesooka
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby juandesooka » Sun May 21, 2017 4:36 pm

Attempt #2 on diy canard, this time with better wind/kite combo. Able to make it work, but it's still a lot less stable than my regular wings. Takes a lot more leg strength and focus on balance to not stall and drop. Forgot how exhausting learning to foil is!

At this point unsure if twitchyness is the foil or the pilot....probably a little of both.

At one point I figured it wasn't worth the learning effort, especially with how much I'm in love with my regular wings. However, pushed hard in a couple of turns, had a "holy crap" moment, it turned off the back foot, felt like a surfboard carve (or snowboard). Not steering through the turn, but powering through it ... ok so this is worthy of some more effort!

borist
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby borist » Tue May 23, 2017 2:04 am

It is probably the foil. While changing to Spitfire may cause a little wobble, this should not last for very long. Especially when going in straight line. Strong front foot bias sounds like a bad foil balance to me.

BWD
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby BWD » Tue May 23, 2017 4:31 pm

if stab in front is making lift upward and you can't hold it down to trim right, maybe your fuse is too long. Longer fuse = more leverage for stab to pitch - up in this case....

juandesooka
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby juandesooka » Tue May 23, 2017 5:10 pm

Thanks for tips Borist and BWD. In 2nd session, I can hold it down and ride for extended lengths on foil. But it's precarious, twitchy, will drop down as soon as weight not centred right. I will have to give it a 3rd try at least, and this time while fresh ... at the 2.5 hour point of this marathon session, my legs (quads) had nothing left, pretty much physically unable to make it work at end. So, unsure if it was the foil not working, me not working, or probably the combo. ;-)

First thing I'm going to try is removing the 1" spacer on front wing, see if that has any effect.

For shortening fuselage, I can try the normal mast bolts, which would shorten it by about 2.5-3"....will experiment with that too.

borist
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby borist » Tue May 23, 2017 6:13 pm

"Nose drop" is common sensation to riding a canard foil in early stages. After a while this goes away, although my foot switch still needs to be quicker in comparison to my other foils. Big workout during a session is not necessarily an indicator of a bad foil if you ride in chop. Lively foil simply requires more attention and you may be very tense/focused to try to keep it going straight and level. Again, this will get easier with time, as long as foil is made correctly. Shorter fuse can make foil even more sensitive in pitch, so I would probably try to play with AoA trim first.

juandesooka
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Re: Canard Foil

Postby juandesooka » Tue May 23, 2017 6:25 pm

borist wrote:
Tue May 23, 2017 6:13 pm
"Nose drop" is common sensation to riding a canard foil in early stages. After a while this goes away, although my foot switch still needs to be quicker in comparison to my other foils. Big workout during a session is not necessarily an indicator of a bad foil if you ride in chop. Lively foil simply requires more attention and you may be very tense/focused to try to keep it going straight and level. Again, this will get easier with time, as long as foil is made correctly. Shorter fuse can make foil even more sensitive in pitch, so I would probably try to play with AoA trim first.
Thanks Borist. Tense/focus indeed ... like going back to learning foiling again, every muscle clenched just willing it to work. A reminder how exhausting those first sessions were.

It may be I am just not yet used to the nose drop feel. It was way better on session#2, drop every once in a while vs constant bucking bronco.

If I want to play with AoA, what modification would you advise? The wings are perfectly level now.


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