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Light LEI kites c",)

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Turbaani
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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby Turbaani » Fri Mar 18, 2016 5:36 pm

Well fone bandit is a light 3 strut kite imo.

If you want the lightest then it might not be the one, but it definately stays easily in air, and has large depower. Same fluttering when depowered.

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:34 pm

tegirinenashi wrote:There is a large crevasse between leading edge and canopy, which is full of water when leading edge is down facing the water surface. I can imagine the weight of that water comparable to the weight of the whole kite. Therefore, the economy of having less vertical struts is false economy -- for reverse launch, at least.
Very true - although, the water can be quite flat, so sometimes not much or any water up there and then the "suck" effect while the LE is on the water surface plus the kite weight is what matters :wink:

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby borist » Fri Mar 18, 2016 6:45 pm

tegirinenashi wrote:There is a large crevasse between leading edge and canopy, which is full of water when leading edge is down facing the water surface. I can imagine the weight of that water comparable to the weight of the whole kite. Therefore, the economy of having less vertical struts is false economy -- for reverse launch, at least.
I'd argue that having struts that hold the fabric up and keep the crevasse "open" could make it worse. The way kite usually drops down in light wind often keeps the water out of - slowly drifting down on the wingtip, rolling flat on LE. I seriously doubt any water in it would make much difference.

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby mig27 » Fri Mar 18, 2016 8:43 pm

I have used many SLE kites, which just cannot reverse relaunch. Also my Zeeko Notus kites (not the Rev, which can be relaunched reversed) need the ERA line to reverse launch.

For my favorite foil LEI I have to say, Peter Lynn Swell v1's. 10,5m and 8,0m. Very lightweight, good low-end on the foil. I could use the 10,5m on 28m lines in 7/8knots. And it stayed in the air in those light winds.

In the last copy of the German kitemagazine kiteboarding.de they have tested some wavekites. Interestedly they have stated the weight including bridles per square meter (as well as the price/m2)

This could be a good indication how well they might be suited for light wind foiling

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby Starsky » Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:39 pm

Strutless kites get no more water trapped between the canopy and LE than strutted kites, in many cases less as borist mentions. Certainly not all that common even in chop. They can however get it on top of the canopy more so than kites with struts but it easy to clear. The weight saving is very real and very much in play in low wind relaunch.

The Cloud reverse launches easily. You can more or less predict which kites will take off in reverse by looking at the width of the wingtip. ie. Fuels pre 2009 did not have enough width in the wingtip to get the rear tow point far enough up off the water for reverse launch, no matter how windy. From 2009 on they have fat wingtips and reverse launch just fine. There are other variables, but thats a big one that is generally easy to eyeball.

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby foilholio » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:34 am

Water can be an issue, behind the LE or just the kite being wet, particularly for kites that arn't good at reversing. There are kites that absolutely cant not reverse though, it would be down to their pulley arrangements, rear line positions or kite shape. Recently I was testing some mixer mods on foil kites , some of them produce a very LEI feel to the kite but surprise surprise the ability to reverse is gone. To reverse a kite needs to move it's tow point far enough to the rear so the lift reverses. This is the same way the front tow point needs to be far enough forward that it can fly. If tow points are too far back from the edge( front or rear) it will be stally and slow or not want to fly at all forward or back, too close to the edge and it'll invert. This would be why most foils invert reversing with too much rear tension, for what ever design reasons most foil kites have the rear bridle (Z) close and some times on the trailing edge.

Back to the discussion of kite weight. The light weight requirements to surf actually exceed those of hydrofoil, except of course surfing on one. The ability in surfing with a kite to exceed the minimum flying point is possible even up to 30knots, with this becoming increasingly easy with less wind and of coarse possible to go faster than the wind and end up downwind of the kite. Pure physics is at play more weight per projected m2 the faster it falls, if the kite isn't balanced it'll fall even faster. Even so call "wave" kites can be found lacking compared to some other kites in this regard.

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:35 am

at low end of ranges there is a big ease of use difference between a dry and wet kite.
I'm sure the water on a wet kite is not much but the weight difference means trying for those extra few grams could be worth it.
At 2.4kg the Notus Air 8m seems to be ok but we need some comparisons.

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby davesails7 » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:18 pm

Yeah, I don't know about RPM. From my past experience they don't hang in the air well at all in light wind, but I haven't tried newer models.

From my personal experience, North rebels and fuses were very bad (2011, 2012 models).

My ozone Edges worked very well at staying in the sky in light wind.

I was at a race where about half the fleet was on inflatables, even some very good riders. I was really impresses with the performance of a 17.5m LF Solo, a 2015 Naish Pivot 14m (not the 2014, 2014 does not hang in air nearly as well), and a 2013 19m Edge. Even when some of the foil kites had fallen out of the sky (due to minor pilot error), these 3 kites were still up and riding.

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Mar 19, 2016 1:38 pm

Regarding those talking about reverse relaunch, I dont really get what it is with those saying some can not ?

I would say, that when you can tip a kite up on its side for a relaunch, it can also reverse relaunched :naughty:

And all bridled LEI kites can be relaunched by a pull on one rearline to tip it up today, right ?
(IF there is sufficient wind that is, can be really difficult or not possible otherwise)

My experiences is, that all different kites/brands I've flown can reverse up.
But more important, that it is often easier to tip a kite on its side - than get it up reverse, if the wind is light and you are on the water.

Most used is to get it on its back, and the pull both frontlines, in marginal wind for the size.

Problem is though, as some kites tend to sink or even fall in an odd way on their back nowadays, so not always possible or easy to get up this way :roll:

One thing is for sure - it is NOT an option to pull the kite to the side and lanch from the water - you have to do it quite or very deep in the powerzone if you gotta have a chance :wink:

A completely new ballgame since hydrofoiling came, thus the need for lighter kites and/or different techniques - or simply having more swims to low ground water or the beach, where you often can reverse the kite up if not messed up with seaweed :cry:

8) Peter

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Re: Light LEI kites c",)

Postby foilholio » Sun Mar 20, 2016 2:14 am

Fiddling with the mixer settings on foils kites again. Some settings reduce or stop reversing but enable or improve single line relaunch, basically a tighter a B/C. Also C kites can't be single line relaunched but some can reverse. Reverse on some kites will be setting dependent. If you can move to a rear line attachment closer to the wing tip, reversing will be easier or more possible. It might be strange but there is a whole class of foil kites (ARCs) that cant be reversed. The rear lines are too far forward from the TE on them.


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