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first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

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plummet
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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby plummet » Tue Jun 14, 2016 8:33 pm

ulx wrote:
joriws wrote:I like this video because buggy rider takes 10+-1 consecutive loops with good speed that maybe with more accurate flying and riding you should be able to achieve true hydrofoil 360 without touching down.
Wtf! How is that even possible? I tried some downwind 360 some days ago and it felt quite good even if not half as dynamic as a powered fast upwind 360. But the thing in the buggy video looks insanely cool! I can´t really get it in my head but I will have to try to and then try to do it on the water. That would be so cool! Can´t wait to see what will be possible and done with a hydrofoil in some years.
First you blast at full pace.
Then throw a downloop. As the kite slams through the powerzone you slingshot downwind and follow the kites arc around so you are allways 180 deg to the kite.
IF you have enough momentum, speed and the right arc your speed and momentum has enough apparent wind to drive the kite right around a full 360.

The least resistance you have the better and the more speed you can carry in relation to the wind speed the better. So yes its easier in light winds.

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby ulx » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:05 pm

plummet wrote:
ulx wrote:
joriws wrote:I like this video because buggy rider takes 10+-1 consecutive loops with good speed that maybe with more accurate flying and riding you should be able to achieve true hydrofoil 360 without touching down.
Wtf! How is that even possible? I tried some downwind 360 some days ago and it felt quite good even if not half as dynamic as a powered fast upwind 360. But the thing in the buggy video looks insanely cool! I can´t really get it in my head but I will have to try to and then try to do it on the water. That would be so cool! Can´t wait to see what will be possible and done with a hydrofoil in some years.
First you blast at full pace.
Then throw a downloop. As the kite slams through the powerzone you slingshot downwind and follow the kites arc around so you are allways 180 deg to the kite.
IF you have enough momentum, speed and the right arc your speed and momentum has enough apparent wind to drive the kite right around a full 360.

The least resistance you have the better and the more speed you can carry in relation to the wind speed the better. So yes its easier in light winds.
Thanks for that. If I hadn´t seen it in the video I wouldn´t believe that was possible ;-)

I just looked at the original video and finally realized why folks were so amazed. I had only seen it on my cellphone so far and didn´t get what is so amazin about a 360 with pretty low speed. Well, now I get it :D

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby ulx » Tue Jun 14, 2016 9:13 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:I think if the lines are to long it is impossible. Would estimate Marc has something around 17 m in the video?

New goal, going to shorten some lines today. :D
Yeah, that was my first thought when I started to understand. I guess short lines would make a big difference here.

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Jun 18, 2016 12:03 pm

joriws wrote:.. It still needs some more practice or/and better gear that true foiling is done (on the video the board touches down). ...
Not to much practice at all!

I think my third try has been successful and maybe already a bit better than Marcs (I hope it will be on a video made from a floating camera, Mischa from http://www.kitejunkie.com has used that day).
My problem with most of the about ten tries was, that I tried to do it in front of the floating camera and maybe with still to much wind.

But the last one I just did for my self, close to the beach in about 10 knt went perfect:

I did the maybe first full foiling 360 (name to be find?) without touching ground and not even cutting the turn on the end. :D :D :D for sure stocked for a few days :D

(and it was not even very very difficult) :lol:

And that's how it works for me:

As said, yesterday I shortened the lines of my 6 m² Flysurfer Sonic down to 12 m flying lines. (Which is comparable to 15 m for a tube so maybe even a bit shorter than Marcs setup)
Also for the first time I used the long 1,10 m strut of my normal Levitaz Aspect 3,0. (But I think the longer strut was no help, pics: http://forum.oase.com/showpost.php?p=12 ... count=1035 , if interested maybe a review on that later)
The conditions have been for sure a lot better than on the video with Marc: A lake with constant wind of first 14 knts later around 9 knts and no waves.

The setup with the short lines was not so easy to handle, missed even some jibes and just able to do tacks to one side always with a loop on the end. Especially to get going under 10 knts was nearly impossible, if already foiling no problem.
First I tried some downloops when going half wind and turning downwind with the pull, which was not as big problem also not with the short lines. To not enter the 360 I just go on pulling the kiteloop over the head and therefore ending the turn. This experience is not so difficult but important to get the right feeling of having the right speed which should be high, but controlled enough to receive the pull of the downlooping kite. Additionally it is important to find the right moment to start turning your board downwind. If you do it to late the pull of the kite might overpower you -> crash, if you start turning to early you might loose pull of the kite and therefore speed.

Speed is important, but not so much if you are riding in low wind (around 10 knt) conditions and if your lines are short enough. I think I was never much faster than 40 km/h.

When I said on the beginning: it is easy, it should be clear its from the point of view of a skilled rider. So before trying the maneuver as save as possible you should be sure you are able to go minimum 35 km/h downwind putting of the hands of the bar and doing some slalom at around 35 km/h. If your not sure about this, better not try the 360 as you will have to handle a similar situation and if your not able to manage it you might hurt yourself a lot.



When you do your first try it could be a good idea to give the kite a last small kick/pull upwards when it enters your windward side, but on the end I never managed to concentrate on that, so maybe also forget about that the first tries. What is even more important is to concentrate to your way in front. This means if the kite is directly windward of you wont see it anymore and my experience was its also better to forget about it, but to have all your concentration to the front.
The maybe most important advise/error you have to care about in this key moment:

Don't just got downwind as this just slows you down, but remember to go in a slight turn always more into the new direction which helps the kite more to find itself the way to the other wind window entrance. In this moment you will need the skill I talked before: Going fast downwind but practically without any pull of the kite but still able to maneuver to finish the turn on the perfect line.
(Just for the wisenheimer physicists: the kite will never leave the wind window, but the wind window it self will do a 360 with the kite inside (if your lucky :wink: ) ; but here I am talking about a simple static wind window model)

If you manage that your kite reaches the other entrance of the wind window without collapsing (or lets say without collapsing to much, as my foilkite most time folded the tips) you made it. And if your are still foiling or not, anyway the rest of the turn goes by itself ... congratulation. :D

Oh and be aware, when I did my first one, I was so confused and stocked that I made it, that I fell of directly after and nearly hurt.

So try to keep cool 8)

Yours Bernd

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:25 pm

Congratulation Sergio. I was putting a lot of hope by using a performance foilkite gor its light fly ability when downwind , combined to short line to shorten the time the kite needs to turn in "paragliding" mode downwind. You did it !

Regarding the name, on the french forum i first spoke about this potential trick last year, i now propose to name it the "tour Blanc", i.e. the "white round", in the honour of Marc and as in french it means the first warm-up circuit round preceeding a F1 race, both amazing and unuseful in the race itself. Your opinion ?

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby ulx » Sat Jun 18, 2016 1:58 pm

It seems to be called 'Deadmans Turn' in buggy kiting.

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Jun 18, 2016 4:04 pm

Also not so bad names...

When I thougt about it ... "Galactical" ... comes to my mind... Why?

As it is made of some wide spread levitating objects that are turning fast around each other and nobody really knows how the physics of it really works ...

(to be more precise: Most kiters don't know and in the other case scientist aren't sure how much black holes, dark matter and so on makes the thing turning so fast) :D

What do you think?

Oh and If you want to call the versions where you touch the ground with a buggy or the board, deadmans or tour blanc, it would also sound good to me :D

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Jun 18, 2016 5:59 pm

I like galactical as well, nice comparison. It now inspire me "Moonwalk" as the kite following moon journey and associating a "reverse glide".
I will share these two new ideas on kitefoil.com and revert

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Jun 18, 2016 6:10 pm

Regis-de-giens wrote:I like galactical as well, nice comparison. It now inspire me "Moonwalk" as the kite following moon journey and associating a "reverse glide".
I will share these two new ideas on kitefoil.com and revert
What is kitefoil.com ?

Apparently no such site exists, the name is "free" for use...

Is it a foilkite forum, or a kitesurf hydrofoil forum ?

8) PF

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Re: first 360 hydrofoil from Marc blanc !

Postby Regis-de-giens » Sat Jun 18, 2016 9:01 pm

Here is the link on the 360 topic. Sorry for the wrong name.

http://kitefoil.forumactif.org/t2845-le ... ght=degres

It is the HF reference forum for french riders ; it was created by Laurent Ness himself years ago, dedicated to hydrofoil (for pioneers at that time ! )


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