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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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pikovsg
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby pikovsg » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:20 pm

airsurfer wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:39 pm
I had my first stabless session with the Moses 683 and 633 wings and first impression it worked fine but not sure about it yet . The foil felt very free and loose with much less drag and the acceleration was great. at first I was like wow this is easier than I thought until I hit the waves and white water. It was very pitch sensitive so going over waves was scary and foot switches resulted in nose dives. I definitely needed to carry more speed to stay stable so I think I need at least a few more hours in flat water to dial it in before I decide if it's for me or if I have the skill to master it
Did you have to move the mast forward or backward with Onda for the mono session? Going to try it as well today

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:52 pm

pikovsg wrote:
Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:20 pm
airsurfer wrote:
Tue Sep 25, 2018 2:39 pm
I had my first stabless session with the Moses 683 and 633 wings and first impression it worked fine but not sure about it yet . The foil felt very free and loose with much less drag and the acceleration was great. at first I was like wow this is easier than I thought until I hit the waves and white water. It was very pitch sensitive so going over waves was scary and foot switches resulted in nose dives. I definitely needed to carry more speed to stay stable so I think I need at least a few more hours in flat water to dial it in before I decide if it's for me or if I have the skill to master it
Did you have to move the mast forward or backward with Onda for the mono session? Going to try it as well today

It is so little difference in trim usually, that you might not need to move it at all.

But if you want to, the mast should be moved a tiny tad further rear when you ride with the stabilizer, so mast a tad more forward when without stab.

8) PF
Last edited by Peter_Frank on Wed Sep 26, 2018 5:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.

airsurfer
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby airsurfer » Wed Sep 26, 2018 2:56 pm

yes I moved the mast forward 3cm and it felt like I needed some back foot pressure so prob could have gone 4cm forward

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sat Sep 29, 2018 12:28 am

Yes, also at my setups I have around 4 cm inbetween strut positions with and without stabi. There are also some boards with tracks to much in the back, which potentially will not allow a monofoil friendly setting, even not in the full forward strut position. Good if you can take extra long tracks as I will do at Groove. But as mentioned on page 10 also the angle inbetween your foot position and the wing is important. In the best case you can change it as on my future board with "steptail":
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby grigorib » Mon Oct 01, 2018 1:47 pm

I read lots of your guys feedback and I concluded few items:
- it’s not that hard to switch to monofoil
- monofoil has much less drag

I got excited about simplicity of potentially having mast and wing only, therefore reducing weight, size and cost of whole setup.

I was itching to give it a try so I did. Put together H4 on 24” mast and 42” Dwarfcraft, and took it out by the shipwreck in Rodanthe few days back.

I can concur on lower drag, the rides vere very smooth, but riding was a lot like learning to foil years ago.
Very smooth bronco :)
Surprisingly I could go farher and more stable on my weak side but on the strong side I’d get into porpoising fairly quick. Tried to move mast back, tried different stance - same mediocre outcome.
Maybe a bigger board would help recovering from touchdowns but the fact I was touching down on a foil for me indicates something is really wrong.

I’ll try 633 later, still curious but way less excited
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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Tue Oct 23, 2018 7:58 pm

Hi grigorib,
yes a big board in the beginning is very important especially as learning flying jibes and tacks on mono is a long way to go. I started with boards of around 1,4 m myself. And a short strut is not necassarily helpful but can be the opposite, I would recommend 0,9 - 1 m. I have been very happy with my 1,1 m I used for a long while now, as it feels much less nervous in pitch.

To all,
as there have been some new questions about what it helps and how to start, I updated the summary from page 8 again, here it is:

MONOfoiling vs. STABIfoiling

Easy learning:
+ stabi foil: Anybody with a good kite flying skills can start learning it.
-- monofoil: First stabi foiling has to be learned till a good level with save flying jibes or even better flying tacks, than complete restart with monofoiling, but with a faster learning curve. But the first insights of the benefits can't be expected on the first day but will show up with time.

Costs and transport:
- stabi foil: more parts and more complex parts out of better materials, therefore significant higher Costs. transportable rigged just with a bus.
+ monofoil: less complex structure: Two parts: one alu strut screwed to a flat low AR fiberglass wing with an integrated short fuselage connection can be enough and maybe easily build your own for less than 100 €, want to try to build a cheap hybrid stabi to mono fuselage. Disadvantage till now no monofoil part from any manufacturer, so have to build it yourself. Pretty compact and much easier to transport when rigged.

Safety:
- stabi foil: Two more and in overall much more pointy wingtips, higher speeds, longer struts means higher risk to cut and a stabifoil can follow you over distance, a monofoil not.
+ monofoil: Just one low AR wing with rounded tips can reach better angle of glide than stabi race foils, struts can be shorter due to lower AR wings and no "stabi breathing to catapult" problems, due to better static also boards can be lighter means less impact mass on your head.

Low and high wind and windrange per kite size:
+ stabi foil: Wider windrange as more kitepower and speed can be conrolled, ability to pump in low wind
0 monofoil: Bit better low wind start, thanks to free movement, especially in low on shore conditions due to shorter struts, more compact structure and no stabi to break on ground, but a bit less high end and range, especially in the beginning

Speedrange and long distance ability:
+ stabi foil: Much higher speeds over much longer time, ability to relaxe by sitting while foiling, myself done more than 100 km per session.
0 monofoil: Lower speeds and shorter ridding times, due to higher demand on concentration, till now just up to 50 km per session. For me the shorter riding times till being exhausted are an advantage. Speed peaks over 40 km/h and a mile with around 35 km/h are possible, so faster than some slow freeridefoils, but slower as race stabifoils.

Performance and glide angle and so ability for maneuvers
0 stabi foil: Good glide angle just on race foils. Most stabifoils with moderate performance and upwind angles of not better than 40°.
+ monofoil: Better glide angle, best documented overall upwind angle of 28° in a row of 6, giving a lot of freedom for many manouvers and low wind.

Jumping
0 stabi foil: Potentially higher jumps in higher winds due to higher speeds, but on costs of heavier more fragile equipment and higher risks
0 monofoil: Same or even better jumping height in the lowest lowend due to high performance, in higher winds still jumping height of over 10 m possible.

Freestyle
0 stabi foil: Many tricks and additionally also boosting very high and all sitting tricks as canery man, which are not possible with monofoils see: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ABHUvpGODXA
+ monofoil: No boosting and canery man, but due to low swing weight (my actual Setup: 5,5 kg) and easier flying landings, much more fun to jump and much more tricks especially foil ons. Great compatibility with micro pocket boards, see: http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2400958 , due to ability to fastly pitch up when touching down, while a stabi blocked foil mostly will nose dive. Also great performance strapless, if you are very good: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OT3mZnjZxUA


phpBB [video]

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Horst Sergio
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the unpopular the better
Style: SLOW STYLE & stuntkiting
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OZONE chrono, FLYSURFER sonic²/r, CONCEPTAIR wave
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:04 am

Even if already shown in the "hydrofoil Videos" Topic, just too good to not link it also here :thumb:

phpBB [video]


It seems I still have to improve a lot, especially my beach landing technics :lol:

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby geron » Thu Oct 25, 2018 2:59 pm

ja ja

geron
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby geron » Tue Oct 30, 2018 1:22 am

Bernd, you should kite with the ca wave kite more.
:) Wouldn't this foil kite and riding stabless be the best for the stye in Oyvid video?

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Oct 30, 2018 7:11 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:
Thu Oct 25, 2018 10:04 am
Even if already shown in the "hydrofoil Videos" Topic, just too good to not link it also here :thumb:

phpBB [video]


It seems I still have to improve a lot, especially my beach landing technics :lol:

Bugger, Øyvind is "King of the superfast turning style" no doubt, even Greg "Cloud" should be envious :naughty:

Not my style (and can not do it either) but amazing skills and agility.

The beach landing at 22 seconds is simply AMAZING - so cool, I think it is the coolest beach landing I've ever seen :thumb:
Board offs on TT and landing on the beach board in hand, been there done that - but above just looks soooo clean and simple ha haaa :rollgrin:

Looks like a 1200 cm2 Ketos Surf wing - yes, it turns incredibly fast :lol:

My respect, some are just SO good you dont believe it!

8) PF


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