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Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

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borist
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby borist » Sat Sep 24, 2016 2:02 am

Very cool! :thumb: You are definitely onto something with a mono wing. I'd like to see a setup with wing specifically designed for mono flight and mounted directly under the strut.

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mig27
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby mig27 » Sat Sep 24, 2016 7:40 am

Looking forward to your movie, Horst :thumb:

The reason not to mount the wing directly under the strut is described here: viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2391526

But this is without the fuselage and negative lifting rear wing.
So who knows this might work.

Nevertheless riding stables seems to be very, very difficult!

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Oct 02, 2016 4:21 pm

mig27 wrote:...
The reason not to mount the wing directly under the strut is described here: viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2391526
But this is without the fuselage and negative lifting rear wing.
So who knows this might work...
Thanks for the feedback :)

I am also not sure how a monofoil with a strut above the wing would behave, as also the construction I use is very free not just in the pitch but also around the strut. Therefore I warmed this one up but no answer till now:
http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19 ... 24#p947324

Anyway, I have now two boards for both and so I am around 30% on monofoil and 70% on the normal foil.

Image

The monofoil is not for going distance. You could do it but I think I go maximum 30 km/h on the monofoil compared to till 50 km/h on the normal and it takes more effort per mile. On the other hand the monofoil is also great, not to say maybe better in light wind as it lifts much earlier but does not has more drag, which is both the key for lowend. And if you go to high, the monofoil does not catapult as there is no stabi pulled out of the water but gently drifts back under the surface (if your coming slowly to far up). I am already changing foot position a bit while riding but not jet totaly for jibe, but maybe because the last sessions has been very low wind, so low lift when changing foot position. At least when I try, I did no more fall but just come down to surface with the board.

Hope the small video from last week will be online this evening. :)

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Sun Oct 02, 2016 10:12 pm

phpBB [video]

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Oct 03, 2016 6:47 am

Awesome boardoff :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Where do you ride normally ?
Have noticed it is always in full winter gear so must be cold :o

8) PF

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby jaros » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:42 am

That is soper cool! You are really good on the monofoil.
I must admit that i tried that a few days back. I was able to ride for a few meters in one direction, but not in the other which was like a first day on a hydrofoil. Finally i gave up for the day, becouse i enjoy riding my normal setup to much, and i dont have to many opurtunities to do it... I will probably try that again some day.
So, now knowing how skechy it feels, i admire your skills even more!
Greetings,
Jaros

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby ronnie » Mon Oct 03, 2016 10:50 am

I don't foil, but think the mono wing is a very interesting new development.

The length of the mast means to change the AOA, you have to make more delicate movements and finer (and quicker) adjustments, because you have to swing the wing forwards or aft by a longer distance than on (say) a 24" (60cm) mast.
That would suggest that learning with a shorter mast should have more benefits in terms of making learning more progressive, than with a normal foil setup?

This next suggestion is not a simple single wing solution, but it is possibly an elegant solution with no moving parts - and slightly reduced injury risk.

The boxwing design by BruceCreations has two wings close together, lifting upwards, as a front wing.


If the boxwing was used as a mono wing:
If, on the graph below, the lower max lift (yellow) airfoil (max lift @ 12.5 degrees) was selected for the front wing, and the lower max lift (blue) airfoil (max lift @ 17.5 degrees) was selected for the rear wing, then within a range near their maximum lift, as the boxwing was swung forward to increase the lift, the centre of lift would move aft, as the lift from the front wing reduced and the lift from the rear wing increased.
LiftAOA.png
It would require a lot of testing in a flow tank with many airfoil sections to check if such a system could work to stabilise the centre of lift in a similar way to the normal kitefoil we have now. Even if it did work, would it be better than the existing kitefoils? It would have the advantage of only producing upward lift, but it also would have disadvantages in that it may only be stable over a reduced range of AOA (maybe 8 degree to 20 degrees?), and the boxwing airfoils which work to stabilise the centre of lift, may have to be less efficient than the current system.
Changes in drag would also be a factor.

I'm not suggesting any of this is a practical thing to try out, just suggesting that a monofoil wing which has some stabilising of the centre of lift may be possible.

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby Horst Sergio » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:20 pm

@ Peter:
Thanks, couldn't believe it myself as the first mono-foil-board-off-try, but at least easier than an normal one as the board weights less.
Yes, today would have been already better to use the drysuit, as closed the session because of having cold at Chiemsee. Last week I have been to Italy and once riding just with lycra, but never feel good without wetsuit, as afraid of getting cuts, so also in summer most time even with gloves and always with winter shoes for protection.

@jaros
Yes the first hour can be really hard, back to foil level 0 :D . But I think it depends also lots on the foil shape. Try to find something with low AR and low chamber use a big board, big kite and don't give up, I count on you :thumb: .

ronnie wrote:..., but think the mono wing is a very interesting new development.
Not sure if we can call already "new development" as, as far I know Phil and me are the only ever monofoilers till now. But I hope we become more as it is really something nice, interesting with lot potential.
Apart from the big disadvantage of that it is not easy, which might be solved a bit in future with better shapes, there are lots of advantages:

+ Less material, so cheaper and lighter
+ Less sharp edges, so in combination with lower weight less dangerours, as you can use one wing with low AR and so less edges instead of two wings with higher AR, while keeping the same performance especially for low wind.
+ Much less catapult when riding too high as the pressure point is already above the wing and not in front if it. If not surfacing too fast, the wing will just breath a bit and stabilize itself.
+ Maybe it is possible to use shorter mast, as better self stabilization when surface (see point before)
+ in some case more freestyle potential, as less weight and no stabi which blocks some movements.
(Want to try to go backwards next times, maybe its possible. 360 you can turn in place if you want)

Before I didn't get the full jibe, will stay with actual setup, but hope to use a very small board in the future to have a setup that is not longer than strut length for max. freestyle potential :D

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mig27
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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby mig27 » Mon Oct 03, 2016 7:40 pm

Wow!
Amazing footage :thumb:

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Re: Monofoil or "riding stabless", setup and riding

Postby rightguard » Tue Oct 04, 2016 12:20 am

Hey Horst really like that wood and red board. Is that hand made? Is it wider at the tip, what are the dimensions? Would you change anything else?

I've been wondering if a board like this would work. Just wide enough for my back foot to fit on the board, a little wider at the front to add some volume, good amount of rocker to keep from nose diving, short as possible, with racing type stance on the straps.


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