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Moses HF 2017

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TomW
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby TomW » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:06 pm

Hi Pedro,
I have the 2016 Fluente and am at 11 sessions. I'm starting to now control speed.
I have not flown any other foils.
I had private lessons 2x2 hrs in Mexico, during sessions 4-5, and my instructor was very experienced. He said my foil was working perfectly and my progression was very good compared to his many others on other foils.
Sessions 6-10 I felt that speed was very high and hard to control. And yes, foil will stall if you don't have enough speed. Now at session 11, it clicked in my mind, and I discovered how to control speed by combination of kite position, trim and direction of board.
I should point out that I bought 548 wing and was using that during session 11, but I didn't feel major low speed difference, but Frank has pointed out that there is indeed a difference, but I didn't feel it, but my session was best ever.
You need a kite that you can fully depower and steer in depowered mode.
You must try to fly foil dynamically, not to seek " locked in" stable position, but rid foil actively, adjusting altitude and direction constantly, this builds feel for foil and how to control it.
My noob to noob advice: get up on-board, fly in stable direction slightly up wind, allow speed to develop, and surface foil, then let speed give you lift. Don't try to ollie up. Once up, gain balance and count to 5, then go back down, then repeat. Once you can do that confidently, get flying like above, and after 5 count, try to so slight slalom turns up wind, down wind keeping kite high and looking well ahead. It's going to take a few sessions to get this feel. You will figure out how to control speed.

Everyone told me this on this forum, and my instructor.

I think your Fuel is probably not the best kite, but if you are super proficient on them, they might work, but a high depower kite is easier.
I'm using 2010 Rrd 9m Obsession mostly, and 12m North Mono 2 sessions.

Keep at it. Maybe Fluente takes a few extra sessions, but you will be ahead of the game after 12 sessions.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Apr 27, 2017 4:21 pm

Thanks for the answer, I believe your 2016 Fluente it's abit different from my 2017 but I can relate alot with everything you described.

Now I understand the "dinamicaly" , I was actually starting to do that by myself but it's good to hear that it is the way to go.

Regarding the counting to 5 well, at 5 im still ok, at 10 im fully deepowered and concentrating on the insane speed im getting , at 15 im fully downwind at speed with no control and at 20 I look at what my board is doing and I immediately crash :)

But it's great fun and a big challenge, about the same challenge as the first handlepasses some years ago :)

cwood
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby cwood » Thu Apr 27, 2017 7:36 pm

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:03 am
Hello everyone,

I dont come to this forum for a long time, but now ive a new addiction which is the Hidrofoil, and since there is more experience people here, i would like to share some info:

I recently bought a Moses Fluente 2017 with the T40 Board which comes with the 550 FW and the 325 STA, and ive around 5 sessions of pratice on it, i also was able to test some other foils to compare, this is what i feel:

My Fluente feels like it needs quite alot of speed, if i try to foil at a lower speed it with "stall" and "sink" after 2 seconds, if i do give the speed it needs then i get alot of lift and ive alot of trouble to control the speed, it just keeps on aceleration until eventualy i crash (at this point im already going downwind to try to stop it). Without any lift im able to cruise around very easily, and go upwind with no problem at all.

I tested the old Silente which comes with a 560 FW i believe, and it feels like it lifts at lower speeds and its easier to control that lift, shouldnt the 560 be a more performing wing?

Also tried the VORACE with the 558 FW, which feels it needs even more speed then my 550 Fluente, and its even harder to manage the speed and control it.

Im still using my wakestyle kites Slingshot Fuel, i normaly go on the 7m above 15knots and 9m under that, with 27m lines, i know those are not ideal for foiling but i still need more experience to decide which kites i want for hidrofoiling.

Any hints?

Regards
I have the Silente with 560 and learned on it. It took me 11 sessions to be able to ride the wing with some good sustained control. I doubt you are in a position after 5 sessions to judge. The Silente is a very stable setup but it does take some learning and hours. I also went through the "holy $#@&" mode where I went faster and faster and got more and more scared...then crash phase. Some of this is kite selection (too much) and part is just not being experienced. I find that if I want to bleed speed I now cut up wind quite hard and keep butt low and kite to edge of window.

I then moved to the Vorace and 550 wing. It does need more speed but just a bit more than the Silente. It also requires you "fly" it constantly...which I like as it is more dynamic. I purchased the 558 but have not tried it yet...I expect it to require more speed and have a higher "low end" meaning I won't be able to slow it down like the 550.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:05 pm

About the kite selection, is amazing how you can go with a 7m in anything over 12 knots...

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Starsky
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby Starsky » Thu Apr 27, 2017 10:58 pm

I bet your foiling fun/freedom will go way up as soon as you start foiling with a bridled kite.

I love a good C kite, but foiling is not what they suit! There are much better bridled kites than others for foiling, but almost anything will be a big improvement over a fuel.

If your shopping, your looking for kites that can be pretty much completely shut off. Lots of good wave kites make good freeride foil kites. The lighter the better, but once its over 12 knots that all matters so much less.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Apr 27, 2017 11:54 pm

Ive been looking, my options so far, always prefer good performance kites:

North Rebel 8m
Cabrinha Switchblade 8m

Any others? Sorry i tend to buy only "A" brands, but i might consider a "B" brand if its really a must try.

stevez
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby stevez » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:43 am

I find it quite counterintuitive that the Fluente / Vorace should need more speed to get going than the Silente with the 560 wing, and that the Silente should somehow be more stable. You would expect the Silente to be a little more draggy with a thicker mast and bulkier fuselage, but not needing less speed, maybe needing a little more power to get up and stay up on the foil. Also the Silente has a shorter fuselage so with the same wing combination should theoretically be slightly less stable.

But this is all theory - I can't argue against other's first hand experience ;) especially when it seem that there's quite a bit of consistency in these observations.

Denisesewa
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby Denisesewa » Fri Apr 28, 2017 3:22 am

stevez wrote:
Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:43 am


But this is all theory - I can't argue against other's first hand experience ;) especially when it seem that there's quite a bit of consistency in these observations.
Since most of the low speed complaints have come from relatively rookie foilers I think these complaints are unwarranted, I had been riding larger winged foils until buying the 2017 Fluente ,after a couple months I find the Fluente's low speed simply needs a more active input and now feels very comfortable ( just as Frank suggested) it has advanced my freeride capabilities with 360's, tacks and toeside to heelside tack(180) which I often stall on exit but can still foil out with delicate inputs , it will foil up at low speeds with correct inputs.
Rather than being "ridden on" it likes to be "driven" .
I am also loving it for waves.
As for kite characteristics, I feel a light weight , very depowrerable kite as mentioned is important but it must also turn when depowered for wave and freeride foiling or its worthless, the cloud C2s were great for light wind but did not turn when sheeted out, the new Cloud D's have solved that problem and are fantastic . Best cabo's are good for foiling but the inflation system isn't so hot, when the wind is up I like slingshot RPM's especially my 4.5 m

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:18 pm

Agree fully - it seems there are a lot of demand for "bigger wings" lately, for some reason :roll:

Mostly from newcomers, or those having ridden a year only, as I, like Frank and Denise, find the smaller wings that likes to be driven, are way more fun than the draggy big ones you ride along on.

Not too small though, there is a limit (for me, individual) where I dislike the lack of low speed.

8) Peter

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omg
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Re: Moses HF 2017

Postby omg » Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:44 pm

Peter, I ride Fluente with standard wing, howevre, Levitaz two bigger wing models have been getting really good reviews on being both quick and very early foiling. Go figure, I have never ridden them, but like I wrote earlier, I feel that one would benefit from a wing which stays on foiling in very low momentary speeds like when turning in very light winds where the kite doesn't pull you all the time.


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