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Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

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Shinnworld2
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby Shinnworld2 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 1:41 pm

Hi all,
Thanks for the interest.
In short... yes we are launching our own foils. They are completely independently designed and fabricated in house at our HQ in southern Poland.
No, we have not shared any parts or design knowledge with anyone else. I am a big fan of the Zeeko foils and Nicolas work but this is a fresh start from Shinn, including the extrusion for the mast.
The plate design is 100% our own and allows fast and easy foil removal.
Blazej Ozog has joined our team to help with the testing of the foil products to ensure that we are able to satisfy all parts of the market. No, at this time we are not going to produce race foils and Blazej will race on which ever foil he feels best on for this season.
Yes, Zeeko is manufactured in Poland, as is Shinn and numerous other products for numerous other brands - however I would point out that Poland is the largest manufacturing base in Europe so there is nothing to be read into there!
More news will be released in the coming weeks in the mean time.... maybe I can show you something more without giving the game away.......
Mark
kenia_na_szybko_11.jpg

jaros
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby jaros » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:02 pm

Hi Mark,
Looks really nice. Like something that Greg D. could use to do his foil-balet on... The base plate looks well thought out and practical.
One question though: why have you decided for a top mount of the main wing?
Greetings,
Jaros

Shinnworld2
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby Shinnworld2 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:14 pm

Hi Jaros,
The answer is very simple..... bottom strikes. Maybe I am just a careless foiler but it seems to happen more than it should and when it happens I prefer hard anodised metal to hit the reef than composite wings.
Top mounted wings are much harder to hit on the sea floor (or when mounting the foil in the car park for that matter).
Regards
Mark

revhed
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby revhed » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:40 pm

Shinnworld2 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:14 pm
I prefer hard anodised metal to hit the reef than composite wings.
To each his own but from a mechanical point of view it makes much more sense to have the F wing pushing up on the bottom of the fuse thereby reducing the stress on the wing holes, bolts and inserts, as well as less top flow having to go around the STRUT, note how almost all others mount, success leaves clues.
I have seen and fixed many failures that were done this way years ago.
And again I would rather have the F wing take some of the impact force than having it directly applied to the fuse, also mush easier to patch repair composite vs Alu.
All that said once, again rule one (1) when KBHFing is to not bottom out, run aground, hit a reef ECT!!!!
R H

Shinnworld2
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby Shinnworld2 » Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:58 pm

Every decision is a compromise - there are pro's and cons to each however the stresses on the screws and holes can be calculated and accounted for in the construction, the stresses of a bottom strike much less so.
Another benefit of the top mount is that the upwards pressure on the wing when riding or landing jumps is compressing the mounting box into the fuselage joint. A bottom mounted wing with box is trying to spread this junction open.
The flow pros and cons are somewhat questionable, placing a fuselage above the centre of the wing is not ideal either, we ran several configurations through our CFD analysis and there was no clear benefit or loss in either system.
Our first prototypes were made in may last year and till now we didn't have a single wing failure. Of course NOT hitting the bottom is a good rule but it happens and certainly some spots make it extremely hard to foil without contact at some point or another. Real life often trumps the ideals!
I'm not saying others are wrong but you'll have to forgive me if I don't follow too much a system because others do it, history is littered with incidents where the general path was proven in time not to be the best one - before the abs sidewall twin tip was invented everyone was make sandwich construction boards with no flex and how many of them do you find around today?
Mark

jaros
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby jaros » Fri Mar 24, 2017 4:13 pm

note how almost all others mount, success leaves clues.
Many use the bottom mount, but there are others that are using top mount also with success!
Nice to see new product coming to the market and I wish all good to every one of them. Many to choose from is good for us users and keeps the prices going down.
I admire Mark Shinn`s work (still using the original Monk). If the foil will follow the success of Shinn boards, it will be a winner.
Greetings,
Jaros

revhed
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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby revhed » Fri Mar 24, 2017 5:47 pm

Shinnworld2 wrote:
Fri Mar 24, 2017 2:58 pm
A bottom mounted wing with box is trying to spread this junction open.
It is just easy to understand that the surface area of the top of the F wing where it joins the bottom of the fuse can be about 20 cm2 (conservative example if fuse 2 cm wide, wing 10 cm long) or MUCH more depending fuse width and wing cord as it looks on your design, maybe even 35 cm2?
Not taking advantage of this physical mechanical contact seems less than ideal?
At least for most D I Y projects, and quite possible factory made designs, it sure would look like wing under fuse is WAY stronger.
Just consider the forces on the threads of the inserts, bolts, wing beveled holes having to almost constantly support the rider and board.
How much overall surface area do the hopefully beveled mounting holes where they mate with the bolts provide in the top mount,I guess less that 1 cm2, as compaired to an overall bottom?
Just thinking about flat landing a jump with only about 1 cm2 of wing surface area being help in place by thin inox, SS threads and how they are fixed into the fuse...
For sure in the D I Y failures I have seen and fixed after the wing is mounted under fuse no worries!
Not trying to be argumentative, the one STRUT Cannondale fork has proved strong enough despite the look.
But if you hold true to your design idea than the rear wing should be mounted UNDER the fuse.
Time will tell....
R H

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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby plummet » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:25 pm

Nice. Looks like a clean mid aspect design. Longish fuse that will help for stability for learners, not too low aspect to limit progression. The board looks like a winner too.
Fits right into the do all learner/intermediate bunch of foils out there.

I think it will do well.

As far as the front foil mounted on top. I agree with Rev, Makes more sense to have the front foil on the bottom. Putting it on the top to stop ground strike I don't think will solve the problem. How often are you riding with the foil bolt upright? Even with this design I suspect 99% of ground strikes will still be on the front wing while the foil is canted over slightly.

What if the user doesn't torque the bolts tight enough and it starts coming loose? with top mount the foil may completely fall off. With bottom mount the foiler may get a chance to get back to the beach.

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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby Ramkiter » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:34 pm

Nice response Mark, loving my El Stubbo / zeeko foil but keep thinking the Carver front wing would make a big difference to carve ability 'fun factor', does it?
Rob

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Re: Is Shinn going to produce his own foil?

Postby aleks » Fri Mar 24, 2017 7:45 pm

Hi Mark,

I was waiting for a dedicated Shinn foil board without a plate. I have El Stubbo now and I can see that it is too flexible to be used without a plate. However on the video it looks like the new boards are bending under the foil quite a bit as well (see picture below). Is it by design? Are they stiffer then El Stubbo or about the same? Thank you!

El-stubbo.jpg


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