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Original Liquid Force to Learn

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nothing2seehere
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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby nothing2seehere » Wed May 03, 2017 2:30 pm

revhed wrote:
Tue May 02, 2017 9:31 am
Ketos "easy" front wing to learn, MUCH better than LF because not flat and once confirmed there are other fuse compatable great wings to choose from!
Check it out, and hover glide is very good as well, all be it heavy!
Interesting to note LF V1 2015 discontinued. Problems?
R H
Out of interest, why is 'not flat' better for learning?

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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby Big Wally » Sun May 28, 2017 3:36 am

Good question. What not flat?

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Kamikuza
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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby Kamikuza » Sun May 28, 2017 12:26 pm

If you can get it cheap, sure. It's fine to learn on and is good enough for basic cruising around, but it's your first stepping stone on the journey.

When you figure out what you want to do (cruise, wave, speed, tacks and gibes etc) you'll need to try some other foils to get an idea of what to upgrade to.

Unless of course the first step is good enough for you :)

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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby TomW » Sun May 28, 2017 12:28 pm

Many learning on Slingshot NF2 here. They are foiling in first session on 24in strut.
If I was going to buy again I'd get the Ketos setup or if I got big bonus the Levitaz.
On other hand I've banged my foil on rocks 2 times in 13 sessions... So if you have rocks in your area, you're going to find them.

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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby Big Wally » Sun May 28, 2017 12:49 pm

How do they do when they go to Full length Mast from the 24 in mast?

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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby TomW » Sun May 28, 2017 1:08 pm

I haven't seen them do that. One guy I know, he's about 30yrs, been kiting since he was 18 and very good at unhooked tt and surfboard. Skateboards a bit too. He went out on a NF 2 and the Big softboard Slingshot sells. He got up on board after 10 min in water and 1hr later( I was foiling further out) I came In and he was flying back and forth pretty consistently. he was on a 9 RPM. Water was fairly choppy with some 50cm wind swell, so not super easy conditions.
But my guess is on longer strut and smaller board, he will struggle 10-15 min then figure it out.
Me, it took me 4 sessions, one of those a lesson, to get to his level. But I am on 91cm strut Moses Fluente. and nearly 30 years older....

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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby DukeSilver » Mon May 29, 2017 3:54 am

Big Wally wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 12:49 pm
How do they do when they go to Full length Mast from the 24 in mast?
The transition from short to long masts on the Hover Glide was pretty seamless for me. The 15" mast gets you going quickly and once you can do controlled runs of 50m to 100m, you are ready for the 24". This mast seems easy after becoming proficient on the 15" due to the larger margin of error with the pitch control. Once I was regularly doing 500m to 1km runs on the 24" without crashing, the full mast just feels even easier still. It's a good system I think. I still use the 24" mast a lot as my local spot is a shallow, while the 15" is used for teaching friends. It is a heavy foil for sure, but it is really durable and stable.

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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby revhed » Mon May 29, 2017 7:48 am

nothing2seehere wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 2:30 pm
Out of interest, why is 'not flat' better for learning?
Over MANY years now we have built and test flown many wings, STRUTS, fuses, boards ect....
We proved to our selves that flat wings are simply not as stable and user friendly as curved, bent anhedral front and dihedral rear builds.
We have even used EXACTLY the same F and R wings a flat set then a curved, no question that the curved , bent were better.
NOT that flat wings will not fly well, I myself would MUCH rather use a large thick flat glass for my mold baes and not have to build in curve but I do knowing it is better.
Flat wings are maybe like "loose trucks" on a skateboard, it will turn fast but is "squirlley" whereas curved, bent will track better and feel less loose!
BUT note that after a while just like a TT with ANY fins is unridable for me now. less and stab and F wing curve, bend lends itself to a Looser faster fly!
Have a look at how Master kite AND foiler Greg uses completely flat F and R wings and does fantastic, but sure for someone to learn on his set up, possible but not easy.
R H

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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby dylan* » Tue May 30, 2017 2:25 am

Big Wally wrote:
Sun May 28, 2017 12:49 pm
How do they do when they go to Full length Mast from the 24 in mast?
i rode the 24" mast for 2 or 3 1-hour sessions before moving up to the full size one. it was a little wobbly but no big deal. the smaller masts make it so easy to learn

nothing2seehere
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Re: Original Liquid Force to Learn

Postby nothing2seehere » Tue May 30, 2017 10:07 am

revhed wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 7:48 am
nothing2seehere wrote:
Wed May 03, 2017 2:30 pm
Out of interest, why is 'not flat' better for learning?
Over MANY years now we have built and test flown many wings, STRUTS, fuses, boards ect....
We proved to our selves that flat wings are simply not as stable and user friendly as curved, bent anhedral front and dihedral rear builds.
We have even used EXACTLY the same F and R wings a flat set then a curved, no question that the curved , bent were better.
NOT that flat wings will not fly well, I myself would MUCH rather use a large thick flat glass for my mold baes and not have to build in curve but I do knowing it is better.
Flat wings are maybe like "loose trucks" on a skateboard, it will turn fast but is "squirlley" whereas curved, bent will track better and feel less loose!
BUT note that after a while just like a TT with ANY fins is unridable for me now. less and stab and F wing curve, bend lends itself to a Looser faster fly!
Have a look at how Master kite AND foiler Greg uses completely flat F and R wings and does fantastic, but sure for someone to learn on his set up, possible but not easy.
R H
Okay. So its less stable in a straight line. By user friendly are you talking about in the long run or in terms of initial learning curve?

I'm only interested because I'm riding an old silente with a flat spade (playing cards) profile and I notice the new Shinn P foil (learner one) has a similarly flat spade looking profile to it. Both are reputed to be on the easier end of the scale to start on (although how can you test? You only ever learn once)


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