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Climate change and kite type and size

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abel
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Re: Climate change and kite type and size

Postby abel » Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:00 am

Kamikuza wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2017 1:33 am
Trolling aside...

If you're anti-foil, why not a big Cloud? Airush Zero must be going cheap now . . .
It seems that I didn't express myself clear enough.
I'm not antifoil, I just didn't try enough as the LEIs were good enough for me until I started hydrofoiling at very light winds.
Willing to overcome my former experience with foils, I'm seeking for advice from the sub 10 knots hydrofoil riders about their experience with the foils.
Clearly the solution for under 10 lulling knots is a foil kite.
Most use >12m size (see poll here http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=19 ... ll#p956265 ).
So the questions are:
Where do you feel is the balance between size, speed and maneuverability?
What size would you use for 9 knots lulling to 6 and 'gusting' to 11 wind range, more lulls than 'gusts'?
Are there any tipical types like the LEIs (C, delta, bow, hybrid..), which one will suit better hydrofoiling at above wind conditions?
What would be the difference between race and non race foils for the purpose?
Why race foils are recommended only for skilled riders (what skill?)

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Climate change and kite type and size

Postby Peter_Frank » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:09 am

"What size would you use for 9 knots lulling to 6 and 'gusting' to 11 wind range, more lulls than 'gusts'? "

Well, I would use a light LEI kite 11 to 13 m2 in that wind, being average weight.

If a foil kite, I would personally choose a 10 m2 racefoil for that wind (but wont recommend it).

Both on longer lines.


The light LEI kites hangs easier, and when they get down you can drift ashore without having the challenging time consuming packdown + swim + recovery on land and try to dry (if possible).
But they wont get you going in as low wind, nope, as they can hang in less than you can ride (often hang in less than foil kites).


Pushing the marginal end, race foil kites are excellent, as they can get you going in even less wind sometimes, than they can hang :D

Race foil kites are a bit trickier because of two things - they are higher AR so they bowtie easier, or fold the tips a few times in a Gordian knot.
And they will take in water much faster, so you have less time to relaunch before the packdown.

Overall foil kites are more stable and wont bowtie as easy, and can stay afloat much longer - the drawback is you loose a bit of the lightness and peak power, so you will also loose a bit of marginal wind low end.

So it depends on two things what to choose: How low do you want to go, and are you willing to take the time to learn ?

Also, your hydrofoil and skill level means a lot, and most needs a tad "extra" size/power to get going, which is one reason many uses bigger foil kites, the other more common being it is mostly racers who use these (around here).

Just my thoughts.

8) PF

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Kamikuza
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Re: Climate change and kite type and size

Postby Kamikuza » Sat Jun 03, 2017 11:33 am

Me, I'd use the 21 :D that's summer winds here so warm and humid air, very gutless. No squalls or gusts so the 21 is fine... Dive and go, sheet and ride, no messing about. But there bottom end becomes a very fine line, and a knot or so under the bottom end is a swim in :D

Race foil is higher AR, lighter material and usually thinner bridles and lines. Not as robust for the freeride. I personally don't think there's a huge difference in skills needed to handle the race foil over a regular, and it's not a huge step to go from tube to foil. Basically, don't ride under the kite, you easy on the bar, and be ready to quickly grab a line to keep the kite flying...

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Re: Climate change and kite type and size

Postby Mossy 757 » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:10 pm

abel wrote:
Sat Jun 03, 2017 9:00 am
What size would you use for 9 knots lulling to 6 and 'gusting' to 11 wind range, more lulls than 'gusts'?
That's 15m weather for me.
Are there any tipical types like the LEIs (C, delta, bow, hybrid..), which one will suit better hydrofoiling at above wind conditions?
There's basically free ride foils and race foils. Race foils are lighter and better materials, higher AR...I think the current generation is as easy to fly as tube kites but you should probably avoid them starting out and go with a Chronov2 or Speed5.
What would be the difference between race and non race foils for the purpose?
Non race foils these days differ from race foils in that they'll be more stable in the sky, less prone to collapse, less eager to overfly the wind window in a lull and collapse. They're also heavier, less high performance, and in the case of the Speed series, more difficult to relaunch due to the materials they use (the sonic2 is basically hydrophobic so it never soaks in water).
Why race foils are recommended only for skilled riders (what skill?)
That's a decent question but ultimately the biggest reason not to get a race foil is that they're usually $500-1000 more expensive depending on what size you get. I would tell a n00bie foil rider to avoid the Diablo2, R1V2 or V3, and SonicRace because learning on a foil kite that costly would suck. I don't think there's anything intimidating about the Sonic2, but again they're really expensive to learn how to relaunch after you inevitably drop it.

Diablo v1 15m is pretty much a rockstar kite and easy to fly, they're still making them as far as I know, so if I wanted 1 foil kite to hit the lowest of the lows and for some reason was averse to an 18m, you'll likely be very happy with a used Diablo 15m.

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Re: Climate change and kite type and size

Postby TomW » Sat Jun 03, 2017 12:46 pm

There's a dealer / Rider here that kitefoils in those kind of winds on a 2017 Storm Voyager 15. I've seen him attempt it in 4-6 knots with a 1 knot current in wind direction. The kite flew fine on the beach, which in itself was impressive, but kite fell back in window as soon as he was floating in current.


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