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Just say No to the nose

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fogmeister
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Re: Just say No to the nose

Postby fogmeister » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:32 am

its a google translation off of a french foil forum......so needless to say some things may be lost in translation :wink:

fogmeister
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Re: Just say No to the nose

Postby fogmeister » Tue Jun 06, 2017 3:36 am

if anyone noticed moses was going to bring out a split fuselage for their race foil in 2017, in which case there would have been no nose. the front wing would be sandwiched between top and bottom of fuselage and screws through. But then they went with the nose after all......prob to keep everything interchangeable and modular, but they still kept the nose.

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cglazier
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Re: Just say No to the nose

Postby cglazier » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:16 am

Here is a Manta foil.. somewhat frightening.. what were they thinking..
:roll:
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Manta.PNG
Manta.PNG (690.48 KiB) Viewed 277 times

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lovethepirk
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Re: Just say No to the nose

Postby lovethepirk » Tue Jun 06, 2017 6:07 am

Cool discussion. My Delta foil has a nose, but it appears from recent photos the newest one does not. I'm about 20 hours into designing a hydrofoil and I started from scratch again tonight, lol. There are some really cool details about building the front wing that are important and are a challenge. I learned a bunch working thru some issues.

Designing without understanding construction is futile. Then there is the practicality of the product for many reasons, both for experienced users and the masses.

Then you have the mystery of laminar vs turbulent flow and how this reacts with your surface design and fluid speed. This can be simulated in a high end system, but my take is a lab would need to back this up and verify the data. For instance, the nose creates turbulence, which almost certainty reduce lift near the root of the wing, but does it delay the separation of flow or does it moreso help the stabilizer flow b/c the turbulence was caused earlier?

Think about commercial aircraft for a moment, they introduced winglets and my take is that may increase surface area contacting the air, but it reduces air drag wrapping back on top of the wing at the tips.

I'm not sure what is best, but as a designer, I'd be looking out for what can sell, is durable, and get good reviews vs what is only applicable for those breaking the sound barrier. Just like relaunch is important for a kite, maybe a nose or bottom vertical wing on the trailing edge can protect the entire foil from disaster upon grounding.

I may buy that manta foil posted above me and go spear fishing once I get better at foiling... :lol: Those manta foils are graphical renderings though...I'd like to see what the nose looks like in a real photograph if anyone has one.

Image

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Re: Just say No to the nose

Postby TomW » Tue Jun 06, 2017 4:41 pm

I think that if you are screwing the wing to the fuselage, for strength, you need to use entire wing chord and have some material at the first screw at leading edge. Then you have to figure out a way to fair it with least turbulence. Hence a nose. An engineering/ hydrodynamic trade -off.
If you make your wing and fuselage as one part, or some alternative attachment approach, you don't need the material mass at LE, so no nose needed.

Winglets in commercial planes reduce tip turbulence and save fuel. I guess they are on my moses 330 stabilizer to improve yaw stability.


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