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one strut vs strutless

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francis luengo
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one strut vs strutless

Postby francis luengo » Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:59 pm

All brands are making new strutless and one-strut kites for foiling.
I´m interesting in buying a 12 m but I don´t know wich one is better.
Can you help me in my decision?
thx :thumb:

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Peter_Frank
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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:23 pm

francis luengo wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2017 5:59 pm
All brands are making new strutless and one-strut kites for foiling.
I´m interesting in buying a 12 m but I don´t know wich one is better.
Can you help me in my decision?
thx :thumb:

In general, the less struts, the more prone they are to flapping, when over the sweetspot, and when turned tight they all flap to some extent.
Of course this is also a major design issue that are very different amongst brands, but everything else being equal above is what we experience on the different one and no strut compared.

One strut will keep the canopy partly over water when down, so easier to catch wind and relaunch, OR drift ashore.
No strut kites can be a bit tricky to get "out" when all canopy has soaked to the surface, but mostly a matter of getting used to I think :roll:

I like to mount a camera on my kite, so I like the strut for that - but assume others dont do this.

Not much difference between a one and no strut otherwise, they are both lighter, and hang well, some has good range, others has good lowend (you can not get both).
A no strut will usually be the lightest of course, and can hang in the lowest wind :naughty:

8) PF

A strut cam picture here at my homespot some weeks ago:
S01.jpg

Taken with my Zeeko Notus Air, same day, beautiful weather
02.jpg

francis luengo
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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby francis luengo » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:39 pm

I ´d watched some videos and they talked that the principal problem on a strutless kite is the self landing.
So I think I´ll buy one strut kite.
What about the self landing with your zeeko notus air?
Nice pic :naughty:

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cleepa
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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby cleepa » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:45 pm

Self launch and landing with a strutless kite is no different to a strutted kite if you are using an anchor. But you can't drop it down onto its leading edge on the beach because it will most likely take off again.

francis luengo
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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby francis luengo » Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:54 pm

cleepa wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2017 6:45 pm
Self launch and landing with a strutless kite is no different to a strutted kite if you are using an anchor. But you can't drop it down onto its leading edge on the beach because it will most likely take off again.
selflanding min 6.20
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0NDL2H-gqA
very dangerous

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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby faklord » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:04 pm

There is some info on self landing a strutless on p4 of this thread http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1& ... 89#p971689

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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby faklord » Mon Jun 05, 2017 7:31 pm

Agree with all the PF wrote above. I would add:
1) Another reason (other than weight) that a strutless can drift better is: when the lines go slack the canopy tends to wrinkle/flap, making it less prone to gliding forward (& "Hindenburging") than a strutted kite. Strutless tends to just float back with the wind.
2) With back lines slack the flapping canopy also tends to switch the power/lift off better than a strutted kite. Nice for foiling.
3) Generally a strutted kite should be able to fly faster & go upwind @ speed & jump a bit better than a strutless. I guess it all depends what you want to do but you wouldn't be considering a one strut if you want to race and getting upwind on a foil isn't going to be an issue with any kite.
4) Strutless can be far far cheaper unless your looking at Clouds.

Obviously all the above are generalisations and the specific kite designs have a big influence.

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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby tswierkocki » Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:20 pm

I recently updated my Cloud C2 quiver to a Cloud D quiver. It is pretty amazing how tight the canopy is on the D.

I can't see any reason to add one or more struts to a D Cloud.

On the C2 you had to keep tension on the rear lines to prevent flapping. This is not the case with the D.

Thanks to the delta shape, tight leech, and new bridle on the D you would think you were flying a strutted kite with crazy good drifting ability.

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cleepa
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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby cleepa » Mon Jun 12, 2017 8:49 am

tswierkocki wrote:
Mon Jun 05, 2017 9:20 pm
I recently updated my Cloud C2 quiver to a Cloud D quiver. It is pretty amazing how tight the canopy is on the D.

I can't see any reason to add one or more struts to a D Cloud.

On the C2 you had to keep tension on the rear lines to prevent flapping. This is not the case with the D.

Thanks to the delta shape, tight leech, and new bridle on the D you would think you were flying a strutted kite with crazy good drifting ability.
Would really love to know how the D compares to the C2 for low end on a surfboard, please. Any info much appreciated!

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Re: one strut vs strutless

Postby Starsky » Mon Jun 12, 2017 12:05 pm

If your thinking of strutless, you really have to think of more than one kite. If your thinking one strut, then you can likely go with just your biggest kite.

Strutless kites will kind of ruin you after using them in their sweet spot. In the right wind per size they are gentle, responsive, quiet and just all round great. The flying behaviour of just a loose canopy is different than other kites and has advantages for freeride foiling. Overpowered they get less gentle and a lot louder. Had a bit of fun overpowered yesterday on one but should have been on a kite 2m smaller..... bad sign when riders on TT's can use pretty much the same size! Mine was loud and the canopy rarely clean and wrinkle free.

Single strut are likely the go for people who aren't ready to go the whole hog and learn the nuance of things like relaunch and weighting the kite on the deck. One single strut in the bigger size then normal kites will keep a lot of people happy. For anyone un deterred by those details, a few strutless kites is a rewarding quiver. They have plenty of enthusiastic fans for a reason, but you can find haters too, but generally not amongst foilers.

Those that foil a lot will appreciate the strutless for their sweet spot, but will have to put up with the odd session with the kite flapping around a lot. Doesn't ruin the session unless your really goosed, but certainly not as nice as when they are mid power band.


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