Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


happywizz
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 4:37 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Scheveningen
Gear: Moses, Ozone, Flysurfer
Brand Affiliation: None

Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby happywizz » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:44 am

Hi all,

Just got the new Moses VORACE 101 2017, with competition wings (MW600-MS380), the MW558 front wing and the MS325 stabilizer. When I was using the 558 front with the 325 I heard quite some noise (cavitation) above 15 knots of speed so I thought that maybe the combination of 558 front and the 325 was the cause of this. Therefore I changed it to the competition front and back (600 -380) but now the noise was completely intolerable and I had to stop foiling. So what can be wrong? My guess is some quality issues with the mast. as with the demo Vorace 101 I used before it was perfectly normal, stable and no noise at all at high speeds. I liked the demo so much that I changed my 2016 Fluente for the Comet. But not with great success as it seems.

Have others encountered the same problem or have other suggestions what could cause this?

I'm interested to know your experiences and thoughts.

Cheers, Frank

User avatar
Pedro Marcos
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1851
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Portugal - Algarve - Faro

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby Pedro Marcos » Wed Jun 21, 2017 9:44 am

Seems to be a mast problem, if it happens with 2 tottaly diferent wing setups.

Ive the Fluente 2017 with 548,550,558 wings and 330 and 325 stabilizers, and ive tried all the combinations, no noise in any of them.

I do think the 558+325 dont work very well, the 325 only works good with the 550 and 548.

A friend have a Vorace 2017, which the sport setup 558+330 and also no noise.

Unfortunally moses its not good in customer support, ive a problem with their board bag that was reported almost 1 month ago, and i still have no answer from them...

cwood
Medium Poster
Posts: 105
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby cwood » Wed Jun 21, 2017 11:52 am

I have same combo's and also nothing but silence. Have you examined the mast closely? If you sight down it's edges is it perfectly straight? Any imperfections? Agree that if the wings make no difference then it may be a mast issue. Is the fuselage mounted correctly? All screws sitting flush with surfaces? Everything seated and tight? Pretty hard to put the wings on wrong given the countersink for the screw heads on one side.
Did you buy direct from Moses or through a dealer?

james
Frequent Poster
Posts: 432
Joined: Sun Mar 07, 2004 2:18 pm
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: Slingshot

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby james » Wed Jun 21, 2017 1:16 pm

First up it's not cavitation.

15kts there isn't sufficient pressure to physically boil the water flowing over the mast or wings.

Check the mast trailing edge it it feels uneven in thickness or straightness that will be causing the noise.

It will need sanding/filling to ensure it's even and that will remove the noise

It's not uncommon for race foils to need finishing fir better performance

As for customer service, go to the people you bought from rather than the manufacturer

happywizz
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 4:37 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Scheveningen
Gear: Moses, Ozone, Flysurfer
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby happywizz » Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:01 pm

Thanks for all the replies.
My local dealer (versusshop.nl) who provides always excellent service gave me in exchange the demo mast and fuselage to compare. We did examine the (probably) failing one closely but we couldn't find any differences with the good (demo) mast. Maybe the differences are so subtle that you cant see them, only experience while foiling. Anyhow tomorrow seems to be a good breeze to try out it with the other (demo) mast and fuselage. I will let it know how it goes. If the same problem occurs I will be baffled. In that case all my wings are fu#@#& up.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8029
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:06 pm

happywizz wrote:
Wed Jun 21, 2017 3:01 pm
Thanks for all the replies.
My local dealer (versusshop.nl) who provides always excellent service gave me in exchange the demo mast and fuselage to compare. We did examine the (probably) failing one closely but we couldn't find any differences with the good (demo) mast. Maybe the differences are so subtle that you cant see them, only experience while foiling. Anyhow tomorrow seems to be a good breeze to try out it with the other (demo) mast and fuselage. I will let it know how it goes. If the same problem occurs I will be baffled. In that case all my wings are fu#@#& up.

It is not as such an error from the manufacturer IMO.

But the differences causing noise and crazy howling sometimes, are so small and subtle that you can not find these with your eye.

I have had a rear wing that was silent - I lost it and got a new one, exactly the same from the same mold, but it was noisy (I found out after having switched wings and rear wings and mast and fuselage and everything).
Then I have sanded the trailing edge both rounder and sharper (the classic way of removing noise from fins and similar), and also the very tips - still not much difference :roll:
Can not see any imperfections either.

So this, and the fact that my friends on race gear, same "model", one is howling like crazy, another is silent - is the reason I know for sure it can be really hard to find the cause.

Tape put at the joints and over screws where there could be "singing" is also an option (I used to find it was NOT coming from here)

Dont blame the manufacturer, it is a problem many experience and usually not a production fault :D

8) PF

evan
Frequent Poster
Posts: 224
Joined: Sat Jan 31, 2004 5:48 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: Brouwersdam
Style: Hydrofoil - Big Air
Gear: Levitaz Bionic
Peter Lynn Aero
Brand Affiliation: Infexion
Peter Lynn
Contact:

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby evan » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:27 pm

Most brands keep the trailing edges somewhat blunt so you have the choise of sanding It razor sharp and silent or keeping It blunt so It doesn't damage you or the foil.

Downside of a blunt TE is that's It a hit or miss how noisy It is. If you cannot find any defects just sand It until it is silent or less noisy.
Don't blame the manufacturer, unless you want to pay more for a silent race finish like Levitaz is offering now.

User avatar
Pedro Marcos
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1851
Joined: Mon Sep 23, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Portugal - Algarve - Faro

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby Pedro Marcos » Wed Jun 21, 2017 6:41 pm

Well, in my local spot, there are 5 moses foils, 2017 Fluente, 2017 Vorace, 2016 Vorage, 2016 Silente, 2016 Fluente. None of them makes any noise, and the Silente already has around 200 days of use on it.

TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1786
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand
Gear: Homemade 4-1
North Mono 7 & 12
RRD Obsession 9
Core XR3 12m
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby TomW » Wed Jun 21, 2017 8:29 pm

My 2016 Fluente is silent. Scary at first

happywizz
Rare Poster
Posts: 9
Joined: Tue May 30, 2017 4:37 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Scheveningen
Gear: Moses, Ozone, Flysurfer
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Quality problem Moses Vorace 101? Terrible noise

Postby happywizz » Sat Jun 24, 2017 8:43 am

Two days I have been able to some tests with my wings in combination with the (good) demo vorace mast.
Results are quite surprising:
The demo mast combined with new 558 front with the new 325 stabilizer, was silent. (Speed > 20 knots)
The demo mast combined with new 558 front with the new 380 stabilizer, was silent. (Speed > 20 knots)
The demo mast combined with new 600 front with the new 380 stabilizer, was noisy above 17 knots. But not as bad as with the new mast. Still no fun.
The demo mast combined with demo 600 front with the new and demo 380 stabilizer was silent. (Speed > 20 knots)

My conclusion:
New vorace stabilizer is ok.
New sport front wing is ok.
New vorace mast is causing the most noise and cannot be used as it is.
New vorace front wing is also causing noise and is certainly not perfect.

As others have mentioned to have no problems with there Moses products (also my fluente 2016 was silent) I think they just had a bad day with my products. Also I don't think that as a customer of Moses I should have to modify the products to be good enough for using, as some in this discussion suggest. (I also don't have to enough experience to be able to make the right alterations. And what if I make a mistake? Certainly no guarantee then.) Maybe that is different if you buy a dedicated highly specialized race foil, where all racers are doing some tweaking to make it perfect. But not for a normal production foil for a normal customer, which should be good out of the box.

Luckily I have an excellent dealer who agrees with me and will send the mast and front wing back to Moses. In the meantime I can use their demo mast and front wing.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: matanshapira and 20 guests