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Kite for 6-10 knots

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abel
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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby abel » Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:49 pm

Just to clarify , the conditions are 6-10 ... not average 10 knots. More lulls than gusts.
I'm ~80kg with the equipment on.
The front wing is a Moses HP560, not really a big beginner wing (maybe that was one of my decision errors?)

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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby coleman » Thu Jun 29, 2017 2:00 am

why not get a 15m speed 5?

honestly though i think a 12m speed 4 lotus is a bit better in light wind, owing to its lighter construction

Kitemanmuc
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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby Kitemanmuc » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:20 am

abel wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:49 pm
Just to clarify , the conditions are 6-10 ... not average 10 knots. More lulls than gusts.
I'm ~80kg with the equipment on.
The front wing is a Moses HP560, not really a big beginner wing (maybe that was one of my decision errors?)
the 560 is fine, it has plenty of lift. I have used 12m kitech and on the comet race wing in 8 knots and was plenty powered.

Kitemanmuc
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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby Kitemanmuc » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:24 am

abel wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 10:34 pm
Mossy 757 wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:29 pm
Johhnn wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:19 pm
Mossy, it's just not the case: "...a 15 m is never the wrong choice for 10 knots on most of the production foils available today..." For the past 3 years until this spring I had been riding the AlpineFoil XLP wing, a beginner/intermediate setup. I rarely used my 12 meter foil kite and only on the lightest days. As soon as there were whitecaps I'd be on my 10 m or 8 m foil kite. I didn't even own a 15 m. I upgraded to the newer "Sport" wing at the beginning of this year and immediately needed a 15 m. I weigh about 170 lbs. At 10 knots on my XLP setup I would have been on my 8 m or maybe the 10 m.
I understand what you're saying, and it's clear from this thread that there's disagreement on the wind range of kites. We will continue to disagree on this point until you provide evidence of you riding in 6-10 knots with an 8m kite. Until then, my recommendation (one of many from lots of experienced people!) remains unchanged.

@Abel, you're throwing your money away if you get anything less than a 15m, in fact, get an 18m!
Right! There is a relation between the skill, the refinement of the equipment and the kite size.
Kite size drops when higher the skills and more effective hydrodynamics.

I'll take Mossy's advice based on my own experience when started kiting during the early modern kite ages :wink: :
The dealer sold me a 12m 2-4 lines convertible Wipika, which caused me a lot of frustration (trying to ride in 11-13 knots).
Then I leaped into a North Rhino 16 and suddenly felt like an expert.
And yes, talking about overpowered, once I got caught with the Rhino in 20-22 knots and by the "no options" law I had to deal with it :shake:

I'll opt for a 15 foil and have handy my current 12 and 10 inflatos, should the wind be >10 knots (I also bought a 6.5 for the lucky case of 14-18 knots :) )
Thank you all guys for this educating thread. :cheers:

Now that I narrowed the decision to a 15 foil, will have to make a "tougher" decision about the type.
Tougher because no possibility to test, as the few foils around are race type or Flysurfer giants (19 and bigger)
So what I'll be looking for is:
1- No high aspect race type
2- mid aspect "less tip collapsing" foils having light weight
3- enhanced relaunch capabilities.
Im telling you man. Kitech. You wont regret it. Or Ozone Hyperlink.

Mossy 757
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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Jun 29, 2017 3:40 am

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 9:50 pm
Mossy 757 wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 3:27 pm
abel wrote:
Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:29 pm


At under 10 knots??
I can ride comfortably on my ElfJoker7 15m and Delta hydrofoil up to about 17 knots on 17m lines, beyond that I get too overpowered to hold it down and get dragged downwind where I can't edge upwind. It really shines in the 12-15 knot range.

I think anyone who says they're overpowered on a 15m in 10 knots doesn't know what 10 knots of wind is...
You are not a beginner , 17m it's not normal kite length lines and the delta foil has a small front wing .

Put a beginner on 25m lines and 15m foil kite , with a big foil wing and he will immediately overpowered in 10 knots or maybe less .

I've been there !
I would love to do that experiment back to back. I think the only metric you'd see change would be speed; those slower foils wouldn't be able to get up and run like the Delta because of drag. I think their lowend would be about the same, and certainly the Delta is easier to ride if you know how to handle it when it starts going fast. I also don't think 99% of people with that price point of foil take the time to properly tune their setup; that adds another variable to the conversation. I'l also admit, it's possible to find the high end of most kites with a hydrofoil, if you're even barely overpowered there's a point of sail where you can find yourself uncontrollably lit with apparent wind. This happens with any boat in a blow and you learn to sail safe points of sail that are controllable and give you the ability to quickly bleed speed or power up as necessary to maneuver safely in strong conditions. This restricts the sense of freedom of the foil a bit, but isn't what I call overpowered...knowing that I can't broad reach with the kite low and the trimmer all the way out is just a fact in heavy air.

As far as line length, I'm definitely not on a setup I'd recommend for a beginner, but only just barely. I learned foil kites on 24m then mostly 21m lines until I switched to 17's for the last few sessions. Once you know how to make a foil kite "pop" you out of the water, the short lines are actually easier to ride, maneuvers are way simpler. Line extensions are easy to play with, takes like 5 minutes to switch them out during a session to see what it's like. 13m lines with 4m extensions and 8m extensions would cover a full range of experiments and broaden an existing quiver by like 10%. It's definitely a good place to look before saying you're over powered, it's amazing what can be achieved by sizing down, I feel like I get a significant increase in top end power holding on the short lines. It's also possible to cut stretched lines and do a splice, so if you want to play around with overstretched lines you can do so without worrying too much if you mess 'em up.

So much of it is gear tuning, that's not "inside racer" stuff, it's just knowing how your stuff works and then adjusting accordingly. I'd also wager that a lot of "overpowered" situations were also accentuated by a bar that was out of tune without the user's knowledge...tell me I'm wrong ;)

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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby Johhnn » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:02 pm

Mossy, I can't ride on my 8 m in 6-10 knots. Approximately >/=10 knots, yes.

Regis-de-giens
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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Jun 29, 2017 12:14 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Wed Jun 28, 2017 5:55 pm
You misunderstand me, I would agree wholeheartedly that the wind in the video is not above 10 knots. You're also 20kg less than me from what I've read, so that might account for the difference, but a 15m is never the wrong choice for 10 knots on most of the production foils available today with most of the production kites available today. Again, the thread is 6-10 knots, not 8-12 knots and certainly not 10-15 knots...this is about going riding powered up when the wind is in single digits.
Ok , so we have very closed point of view actually. -20 kg approx corresponds to 3 or 4 m2 lower kite surface.

And I'm also with you for the size of 15m2 in 6-10 knots for a rider of 80kg.

Kitemanmuc
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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby Kitemanmuc » Thu Jun 29, 2017 6:48 pm


Regis-de-giens
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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Jun 29, 2017 9:59 pm

very interesting. Just 3 comments :
- not sure that Flysurfer invented the closed cells. I think it is Benoit Tremblay with the famous Laurent Ness as preliminary tester.
- not all foil require pre-inflation. I never Pre-inflate my Pulsion, and this may be the same for kitech fly and Ozone Hyperlink (moderate ratio). So I just need about 10-15 seconds after my kite is properly laid flat on the sand with bar ready to ride.
- packing is however longuer than LEI.

Brian H
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Re: Kite for 6-10 knots

Postby Brian H » Fri Jun 30, 2017 3:39 pm

Anyone using the new airush 15m ultra for foil boarding ?


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