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Line Length using foil kite

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Mossy 757
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Re: Line Length using foil kite

Postby Mossy 757 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 3:37 pm

Start with the 25's, you'll be fine for the first while.

Don't take the kite out and expect miracles in light wind; when I bought my first foil kite I got great advice from the guy who sold it to me, he said to take it out in as much wind as you think you can handle so that you're not fighting the kite and it's fully powered up for a full session. That will be enough of a challenge without adding in the unexpected things that foil kites do in light wind.

For me, a 15m foil kite is properly powered up in 13 knots of wind, no questions asked you'll have a great session. You can progress towards lowend riding on the water a LOT faster if you get in some kite-only practice sessions in super light stuff. From there, decide if you want to fiddle with your lines. If you own a set of 25m lines, 6m extensions and a set of 12m lines would give you the full unrestricted range of fun.

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davesails7
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Re: Line Length using foil kite

Postby davesails7 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 6:39 pm

I've been migrating to shorter and shorter lines over the last year and have been very happy with the results. I've found that longer lines do extend the low end of a smaller foil kite ( 10m-12m) but in the bigger sizes (15m and 18m) I don't notice a difference.

I currently ride 17m or 20m lines on 18m kite and 15m or 17m lines on my 15m kite depending on how light it is. I have no trouble looping the 15m on 15m lines. The high end racers use even shorter lines for their 15m kites.

I had a bar with 25m lines, but couldn't stand them anymore so never use them. With the 18m kite you just get overpowered way too quickly on 25m lines. The 18m gets you up on foil nonproblem in the lightest winds even with the short line(17m or 20m) but then youRe suddenly riding in 20+ kts of apparent wind and you definitely need the short lines.

The biggest factor for me on low end is keeping foiling through the transitions. When you stop is when the problems happen. Shorter lines make it easier to foil through transitions. With the shorter lines you can get the kite to where it needs to be in the wind window much quicker.

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Re: Line Length using foil kite

Postby foilonfoil » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:14 am

I started with 25M lines and have been getting progressively shorter overtime. Today 18M lines on my 18M foil kite and 16M lines on my smaller foil kites. Friends are riding with 10M/12M lines. Bar setup is critical so that you can fly the kite close to the water surface powered at speed without over extending yourself.

- Lightwind kite flying is all about keeping the kite moving.
- Trimming (depowering) to minimize back stalling as needed.
- Water starts with a downloop are a must so downlooping is a required skill in light wind.
- Foiling tacking and jibing to maintain apparent wind and minimize tough water restarts.

IMO, messing up a tack or jibe with long lines actually can increase the chance of dropping your kite with all the line slack that can occur.

Realistically, 8kts is the practical wind minimum for my local beach as body dragging for water start with the foil into the deeper water is impossible in lighter wind... At 8kts, it is really tough to do.

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Re: Line Length using foil kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:19 am

Remember, Pedro asks which line length that makes sense for "extreme light wind", and not in general.

And while I agree that shorter lines on the really big ones makes sense if a tad more wind (only when foilkites), I disagree that you dont gain anything in extreme marginal wind with longer lines, on bigger foilkites.

Many who answers here ride in "race" mode so to speak, meaning, if not racing, using short or really short lines as it is more than sufficient except for the extreme light wind.

The latter would be something around 4-5 max 6 knots.

And while used to riding with a certain line lenght most of the time, the advantage using longer lines diminishes rapidly, and you get the "bad things" right in your face as not on your backbone now.
Knowing your gear is by far the most important as we all know.

When on the edge just not able to ride, my friends racing say - they KNOW they could go and ride with longer lines, but they are so used to the shorter ones that they often dont bother switching to longer.
Also because they dont wanna "just ride" - but mostly practice racing.

Longer lines helps, how long till it stops, I dont know, 30 and 32 m is what I have been using for above winds with 12 and 15 m2 race foilkites, maybe at some point you wont gain anything, I dont know where it stops ?
But it is still "pleasant" and easy at 30 m thats why I wont go longer.
If we talk normal wind gradient of course, important to say.

Anyone who has tried even longer, in different conditions - and got experience on this ?

I have an idea, but dont know, that 40 m wont really help much (never tried it).
Might start to feel really sloggy and impractical yes, but it might also be able to get you down even further towards the utmost marginal wind where you can start and ride - so interesting about anyone who tried.

8) Peter

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Line Length using foil kite

Postby Pedro Marcos » Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:44 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:19 am
Remember, Pedro asks which line length that makes sense for "extreme light wind", and not in general.

And while I agree that shorter lines on the really big ones makes sense if a tad more wind (only when foilkites), I disagree that you dont gain anything in extreme marginal wind with longer lines, on bigger foilkites.

Many who answers here ride in "race" mode so to speak, meaning, if not racing, using short or really short lines as it is more than sufficient except for the extreme light wind.

The latter would be something around 4-5 max 6 knots.

And while used to riding with a certain line lenght most of the time, the advantage using longer lines diminishes rapidly, and you get the "bad things" right in your face as not on your backbone now.
Knowing your gear is by far the most important as we all know.

When on the edge just not able to ride, my friends racing say - they KNOW they could go and ride with longer lines, but they are so used to the shorter ones that they often dont bother switching to longer.
Also because they dont wanna "just ride" - but mostly practice racing.

Longer lines helps, how long till it stops, I dont know, 30 and 32 m is what I have been using for above winds with 12 and 15 m2 race foilkites, maybe at some point you wont gain anything, I dont know where it stops ?
But it is still "pleasant" and easy at 30 m thats why I wont go longer.
If we talk normal wind gradient of course, important to say.

Anyone who has tried even longer, in different conditions - and got experience on this ?

I have an idea, but dont know, that 40 m wont really help much (never tried it).
Might start to feel really sloggy and impractical yes, but it might also be able to get you down even further towards the utmost marginal wind where you can start and ride - so interesting about anyone who tried.

8) Peter
Yes the target is riding in 4-8 knots, because everytime there is "no wind" in here, its 4-8 knots.

I did test a 12m LEI with about 38m (all my line extensions), i found that there is too much drag and the kite sits too much back in the window, so almost impossible to go upwind. But this was some time ago with a surfboard, never tried it with the hidrofoil, as normaly now i use 30m in the marginal wind for the 12m Storm which is about 7-8 knots.

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Re: Line Length using foil kite

Postby cwood » Thu Jul 13, 2017 12:08 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Jul 12, 2017 7:56 am
Pedro Marcos wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:50 pm
airsurfer wrote:
Tue Jul 11, 2017 11:38 pm
I have the Chrono V2 15M ultralight and I use it with 25M lines and a race bar. I have flown it on 17M lines and while the kite is more responsive it's too long of a kite IMO for anything shorter than 25M. at least for me because I always loop the kite to start and on transitions. your experience/preference might be different
What windrange can you get on 25m lines ? Also your weight and hidrofoil wing ? :) thx

Pedros, you have bought the kite, and now you know you can use the std 25 m maybe 30 m for marginal winds - just fly and try it yourself thats the best way to get an idea of the low end, as numbers are soooo deceiving when trying to share.

Just beware, when not having flown a foilkite before there are some differences, like you have to back it "into" the window again in marginal winds, and pull the frontlines.
Also, when diving to get started - it pulls a lot, but when it comes close to the water and loses speed, it has way less power than your regular LEI kite - so you have to get used to this difference, but will come in time.

8) PF
Further to Peter's point, as the down stroke completes you have to sheet out to let the kite "breathe" on the up stroke or you will lose most of your power. Biggest thing I had to learn in moving to foil kites.

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davesails7
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Re: Line Length using foil kite

Postby davesails7 » Thu Jul 13, 2017 3:48 pm

Hmm, I still don't think the longer lines help if you have a big race foil kite (15m-18m).

My reasoning:
Longer lines don't make more pull from the kite, they juse make the kite pull for a longer amount of time. When I am out on my biggest kites and the wind dies to the point where I can't waterstart anymore, I just can't get enough pull to get up on the board.

I'm continually flying the kite in a figure 8 or looping over and over, but it's just not enough pull. The small amount of pull is fairly continuous though.

Eventually either the wind picks up to give me enough pull or the wind dies a but more and the kite can't even climb out of the loop and falls to the water. In that super low wind condition, I don't think 10 or 20 more meters of line would help. The kite would have to climb for longer in a bigger loop.

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Re: Line Length using foil kite

Postby foilonfoil » Thu Jul 13, 2017 5:03 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Jul 13, 2017 11:19 am
Remember, Pedro asks which line length that makes sense for "extreme light wind", and not in general.
...

8) Peter
Just to add... It's all a compromise the best of the best can fly an 11M foil kite with 10 meter lines in a puff of wind. Light body weight, light wind foil, and insane tacking and gybing skills mean that they are always flying in apparent wind. For the rest of us, the downside of long lines is the loss of kite control and massive line slack can allow the kite to wrap itself up before it hits the water if/when you by accident overfly the window/mess up a tack.

If the goal is true light wind, then start with a bigger foil kite (17M+) then add line length.


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