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Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

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Pedro Marcos
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Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby Pedro Marcos » Tue Jul 18, 2017 11:30 am

Hello,

With my "short" but intensive experience in foiling i got the feeling that a higher aspect wing will give me more glide then a low aspect wing, by glide i mean being able to completely kill the kite and still foil some meters without sinking, which i think make things easier for most of "tricks".

Its interesting that as more experienced i get i find that the higher aspect wings are actually more "easy" then the lower aspect wings, but "easy" i dont mean easy to learn, but when you already learned it, everything seems to be easier on a higher aspect.

What are your opinions on this?

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:29 pm

You are spot on, higher AR gives a lot more glide and also more low end :thumb:

But when you have ridden a lively low AR wing you will love these for turning and waves, no comparison :naughty:

Thus I switch from high AR to faster low AR wing when windy, from 12 knots usually (8 m2 and smaller kites) - but of course depending on other things too.

8) PF

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby Pedro Marcos » Tue Jul 18, 2017 2:45 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 12:29 pm
You are spot on, higher AR gives a lot more glide and also more low end :thumb:

But when you have ridden a lively low AR wing you will love these for turning and waves, no comparison :naughty:

Thus I switch from high AR to faster low AR wing when windy, from 12 knots usually (8 m2 and smaller kites) - but of course depending on other things too.

8) PF
Ive a lively setup, which is the Fluente 2017, but it is much harder to learn jibes, tacks or really anything else on it, besides turns, 360s, and carves. So im now sticking to a more stable setup until i can master most of the "non jumping" stuff.

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby gmb13 » Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:50 pm

In theory higher AR will have more glide, however that is assuming same surface area and profiles. It is pointless comparing foils that are so inherently different just based on AR.

A super low AR Surf foil like the Takuma way more glide that my super high AR Banga. Why is has about 3 times the surface area.

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby Pedro Marcos » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:32 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:50 pm
In theory higher AR will have more glide, however that is assuming same surface area and profiles. It is pointless comparing foils that are so inherently different just based on AR.

A super low AR Surf foil like the Takuma way more glide that my super high AR Banga. Why is has about 3 times the surface area.

--
Gunnar
Would it have better lightwind capabilities ? Ive seen a video of the takuma and the ride is REALLY slow, which would be great for waves yes, but maybe not so good for lightwind.

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:58 pm

A higher AR wing has somewhat better low end and way better glide, everything else being equal, as simple as that :thumb:

Of course one can not compare if different area and profile.

A really slow and lifting wing like the Takuma will work great for light wind, eventhough less apparent wind yes, but it is more than counterbalanced by its huge lift :D

8) PF

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby Pedro Marcos » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:25 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 8:58 pm
A higher AR wing has somewhat better low end and way better glide, everything else being equal, as simple as that :thumb:

Of course one can not compare if different area and profile.

A really slow and lifting wing like the Takuma will work great for light wind, eventhough less apparent wind yes, but it is more than counterbalanced by its huge lift :D

8) PF
Im surprised no one made yet a high AR wing with lots of area.

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:54 pm

I know, but WHY would you do this ?

To be able to ride in really low wind is the obvious answer yes, but it will turn lousy....

So more fun with a lower AR wing that turns well and starts quite early, or a higher AR faster wing that starts a tad later but can ride in the same lowend when first up to speed and turns okay.

IMO it is simply because it is not fun anymore when too big, no matter if we talk area or span :naughty:

Also, at too low speeds, too narrow chord is not good and will give you less performance at some point, besides having a more abrupt stall of course - but this can be learned, no biggie.

8) PF

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby flying grandpa » Wed Jul 19, 2017 10:43 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Tue Jul 18, 2017 5:50 pm
A super low AR Surf foil like the Takuma way more glide that my super high AR Banga. Why is has about 3 times the surface area.

--
Gunnar
That is really complicated problem.
Let us imagine Gunnar's glide on a swell, where slow Takuma will ride down the slope, whereas Gunnar has to put fast Banga at an angle to the slope, to not pass the wave. Going faster - Banga makes more drag (proportional to Velocity squared) and going at an angle Banga has less push from the wave.

Let have a look from another perspective.

Imagine Gunnar on a Takuma and his twin brother on a Banga being pulled by a motorboat.
They release the lines the same moment. Which one will go further?

There is more than one answer.

At low speed, a little above starting speed for Banga, Takuma will winn, as the Banga will sink in the drink.

At high speed, close to max speed for Tacuma, the winner is Banga.
The reason: 3 x less surface area = 3 x less viscosity drag; High AR = less induced drag

Somewhere in the middle there will be tie.

So, the practice is not so far away from theory in this case.

Tadeusz

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Re: Glide ! Low or High aspect wing

Postby Pedro Marcos » Wed Jul 19, 2017 11:12 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Jul 19, 2017 9:54 pm
I know, but WHY would you do this ?

To be able to ride in really low wind is the obvious answer yes, but it will turn lousy....

So more fun with a lower AR wing that turns well and starts quite early, or a higher AR faster wing that starts a tad later but can ride in the same lowend when first up to speed and turns okay.

IMO it is simply because it is not fun anymore when too big, no matter if we talk area or span :naughty:

Also, at too low speeds, too narrow chord is not good and will give you less performance at some point, besides having a more abrupt stall of course - but this can be learned, no biggie.

8) PF
Well the market is flooded with so much useless stuff, at least would be nice to try and experience it. :)


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