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The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

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alexrider
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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby alexrider » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:35 pm

That was the implied question. Thought the video would be enough to pass on the message. I was going to clarify, but bragnouff did it for me. Should I edit the title?
bragnouff wrote:
Tue Aug 01, 2017 12:41 am
So with the definitions that have been debated above, I'd say The secret to easier air gibes and tacks is to... Never change foot! Works pretty well, none of that jerkiness!

Please come up with a new topic " The secret to easier foot changes during air gibes and tacks?"

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby BWD » Tue Aug 01, 2017 2:45 pm

sailing were there is only one way of executing those manoeuvres. A boat does not know the difference between switch and normal riding, goofy or regular stance.
Neither assertion is true. Many boats are very sensitive to how and when weight is shifted, how maneuvers are made etc.
Tack/jibes only ever means changing vessel direction respecting the wind, even in a motorboat (though that is not really relevant to these sealawyer rants).
You can tack and jibe any which way and the variables of type of craft and crew position, weight distribution, what sails or kites are flying, how they are trimmed, what fin/foil/rudder/keel etc is attached, etc, are practically infinite, but don't change what tack you are on. That is simply the boat orientation to wind direction.

Back to the original question:
The "secret" would probably be the same as for surface riding, no doubt:
know and move around the balance point of the board,
do it fast
and rely on unweighting and/or latency time of foil to respond to your moves,
so stability is maintained.
Easier to switch feet either before or after the carving process than in the middle.
Hopefully it won't take me a whole year to learn this on foil!

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby cglazier » Tue Aug 01, 2017 4:50 pm

A sailing craft can be on either port or starboard tack. It can change to the other tack by turning upwind (a tack) or turning downwind (a gybe). This is true for sailboats, dinghies, windsurfers, and kiteboarders. It makes no difference which side the crew is on or where your feet are or whether you are riding toeside or move your feet. These maritime definitions are universal and also part of maritime law.

Back to the topic..
A bigger slower wing makes things easier for me.
Obviously flat water and steady wind helps.
And being fully powered and going fast helps.
A foil kite makes things easier because it holds you up more.

Lots and lots of practise....

:wink: CG

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby TomW » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:13 pm

Hi guys, thanks for the tips, I'll give it a try.
Keep kite low for gybes with up turn of kite.
I'm only doing heel to toeside gybes ( carve) on my strong side, riding toeside then either landing and switching or carving back toeside to heelside.
I have not attempted any foot switches in air, but understand that I should bear slightly upwind, bring kite up, sheet in to put weight on kite then do a 1-2 foot switch, then bring kite back into power zone.
I'm getting better at carving gybes on strong side, but I'll now try to do them properly, then start practicing heel to toeside on weak side.
I can do this easily on a surfboard already, so I'm ready.

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Aug 01, 2017 6:59 pm

Sounds like a good plan Tom :thumb:

Remember, for carving you fly the kite low first, and up and around while you turn.

For jibing the way most do it, you fly the kite high, to make you weightless while switching feet, and then you should definitely downloop from there, so it ends up in one smooth controlled move one day.
If you fly the kite back into the new direction from up high, instead of downlooping, you will get slack lines and no power in the end of the turn, so not a good idea.

Jibing with kite low and around upwards, and then switching feet at the end of the jibe is quite tricky, as less lift and a lot more coordination needed, just so yoiu are warned.
But I find these jibes feels soooo good, as it is just like on a waveboard and you got all options to either carve back, OR jibe :D , your choice instead of having it all determined beforehand :(

Anyways, many have been hydrofoiling quite well for years, and can still not do a flying jibe at all - but can make fluid carves, so it is pretty normal NOT being able to do it, if this can be any comfort to you knowing :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby TomW » Thu Aug 10, 2017 7:35 pm

Ok, so I busted my new homemade kite board I was in love with, and loaned out my converted surfboard to a needy colleague. And had to convert an old Franken- monster board to foil.
The thing is a disaster, but figured if guys can go on sheets of plywood, it would work.

Had 1 session in horrible conditions with seaweed mines everywhere, then a good session in light wind, then a short sesh in lighter winds.

Heel to toeside carve/gybe, Tried the keep kite low, maintain line pressure, turn kite and foil quickly. Managed to pull off a few.
Im struggling with 2 things: Kite turn timing and foil is ventilating. Let me break it down :
Kite timing, even if I keep kite at 45, and pressure on, as soon as I turn foil I lose all power in kite and it won't turn. Probably so light wind I should downloop.
If I turn kite first, then follow with foil I am more successful, but challenging to not get pulled off or ventlate because it requires quick turn. It this the right way?

I'm on 93cm mast. I'm leaning a bit into turn. But foil is ventilating. I'm trying to keep board low at turn initiation, keep front foot pressure. My guess is I'm on right track, but need more practice. Doesn't feel right to keep mast vertical in turn. What do you say about leaning?

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:10 pm

You are on the right track Tom :thumb:

You HAVE to start turning the kite simultaneosly with starting your carve/turn, to avoid the slack lines and to get a smooth carve.

And you have to lean into the carve, but not for making the turn, you have to learn to turn, so you can lean into the now not too wide turn.

Rubbish you might say ?
But I am serious - remember clearly when learning to carve, and leaned over like used to on surfboards or twintips, but the foil did not turn with me and I got thrown off, often ventilating too :x

Remember to think "Yaw", using your front foot to twist the board into the turn :D
When you master this, the "leaning into" comes automatically for keeping good balance and it feels like a surf carve now :rollgrin:
If you do the opposite, lean into the turn to get it to turn, it will go really wrong - that is my point here :roll:

You can not carve having the mast vertical, that is for sure... But you should not think about the mast, think ONLY about your yaw impulse, which turns the hydrofoil in a curve, and mast (and you) will position itself correctly by itself, great.

The reason why it works having the kite around 45 or less and flying it up and around, is that when it flies up simultaneously with you going downwind, you avoid the slack lines and can keep tension all the way around a lot easier.

But I am sure your problem is still, that you dont carve "tight" yet, thus you get slack lines too easy...

You can try to downloop, but you might not gain much except being able to go in a wider turn, but probably a lot more often getting the kite in the water :-?
I would wait with the downloop, till you can master a normal carve okay.

8) PF

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby cglazier » Thu Aug 10, 2017 9:28 pm

Peter has good advice if you are just beginning.
But if you already comfortable doing downloops when you jibe (gybe) your surfboard, don't hesitate to downloop with your hydrofoil.. it makes things much easier especially in light winds. I ALWAYS downloop during a jibe except when the wind is so strong that I am afraid to.

CG

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby TomW » Thu Aug 10, 2017 10:15 pm

PF,

Thanks. I get your explanation totally clear. Super helpful!
Yes, I realize whats going on when you say Yaw first, thinking back, I did that on the good turns.
It was was like " whoa, that came round quick" when I yawed into the turn.
Yes, I'm not turning fast enough. Too wide. Lean. Fall over.
I intuitively know I'm going to drop kite if if I downloop, doing wide turns, so I don't dare in those light winds.
It's gonna click soon.

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Re: The secret to easier air gibes and tacks?

Postby jash999 » Fri Aug 11, 2017 6:21 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Aug 10, 2017 8:10 pm
You are on the right track Tom :thumb:

You HAVE to start turning the kite simultaneosly with starting your carve/turn, to avoid the slack lines and to get a smooth carve.

And you have to lean into the carve, but not for making the turn, you have to learn to turn, so you can lean into the now not too wide turn.

Rubbish you might say ?
But I am serious - remember clearly when learning to carve, and leaned over like used to on surfboards or twintips, but the foil did not turn with me and I got thrown off, often ventilating too :x

Remember to think "Yaw", using your front foot to twist the board into the turn :D
When you master this, the "leaning into" comes automatically for keeping good balance and it feels like a surf carve now :rollgrin:
If you do the opposite, lean into the turn to get it to turn, it will go really wrong - that is my point here :roll:

You can not carve having the mast vertical, that is for sure... But you should not think about the mast, think ONLY about your yaw impulse, which turns the hydrofoil in a curve, and mast (and you) will position itself correctly by itself, great.

The reason why it works having the kite around 45 or less and flying it up and around, is that when it flies up simultaneously with you going downwind, you avoid the slack lines and can keep tension all the way around a lot easier.

But I am sure your problem is still, that you dont carve "tight" yet, thus you get slack lines too easy...

You can try to downloop, but you might not gain much except being able to go in a wider turn, but probably a lot more often getting the kite in the water :-?
I would wait with the downloop, till you can master a normal carve okay.

8) PF
Peter, when 'yaw'ing the board around before the downloop, are you keeping the board / foil flat at the same height and just sort of twisting the board around with hips/ feet, or do you first drop the board closer to the water, then twist / yaw and push on the back foot to bring the board back to level at the same time, doing a sort of spiral turn in one motion?


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