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Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

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Horst Sergio
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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby Horst Sergio » Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:00 am

My words as tautologies say.

If anybody buys obvious copied designs, it is not done "to test it for the comunity" but just to safe money for himself while supporting and creating an at least immoral industry.

What those say to the designers is: "I like your design, but I just take it and wont pay you for that."
What they say to the community: "I am smarter than you as I pay less and let you pay the designer for me. "

Nothing to be proud about and write it into a forum. :(

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:58 am

It's just going to get harder. You have long had cut and paste within the industry also... You know particularly when a rival sees something that might blow up and they think we need to do this.

I seen it in the surf industry, I can go through and name all the board models that a few particular surf brands have copied and reproduced... Some look identical. They have successful businesses though, and while seen as underhanded, business wins out every time. Underhandedness, loyalty, immorality... means nothing in bu$ine$$.

I think cheap foils could grow the sport long term, and hence the industry.. it is sooooo niche right now!

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Nov 17, 2017 11:03 am

longwhitecloud wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 4:58 am
it is sooooo niche right now!
:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby nismo98 » Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:25 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 3:00 am
My words as tautologies say.

If anybody buys obvious copied designs, it is not done "to test it for the comunity" but just to safe money for himself while supporting and creating an at least immoral industry.

What those say to the designers is: "I like your design, but I just take it and wont pay you for that."
What they say to the community: "I am smarter than you as I pay less and let you pay the designer for me. "

Nothing to be proud about and write it into a forum. :(
If somone can make the same product and sell it for less than half the cost then maybe the industry price point is the issue. I want a second wing but 500+ for a peice of glass is ridiculous. Am I just as Immoral by borrowing friends high end wings for moulds and making my own wings to save money or should I be happy to overpay through industry just to support possible new r and d that is fractionally better at best?

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby tautologies » Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:54 pm

nismo98 wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 1:25 pm

If somone can make the same product and sell it for less than half the cost then maybe the industry price point is the issue. I want a second wing but 500+ for a peice of glass is ridiculous. Am I just as Immoral by borrowing friends high end wings for moulds and making my own wings to save money or should I be happy to overpay through industry just to support possible new r and d that is fractionally better at best?
In a tiny industry, not having R&D is obviously going to decrease the price. Marginal improvements end up creating new and way better products down the line. Imagine riding kites from 2000 today? The new kites have enabled new, better and safer riding. I cannot understand why this is not obvious to everyone.

Somewhat simplified if you buy from the copyists all development stops (or is put on everyone else) and your current product stays as long as you keep buying, but no new innovations will be done.

To me if you copy it and make it for yourself, it is a bit better. You can always evolve to become your own R&D and develop products on your own. If you start selling those pure copies it is not okay anymore. If you start with a template you like and start evolving the product you make it your own again. This is how innovation works.

Understand that these chinese copies aren't kiters, they will not develop anything, they probably barely have seen images of how a foil even works. I am willing to bet that they are not kiters at all. All they do is to suck resources out of an already small industry.

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby tegirinenashi » Sat Nov 18, 2017 3:16 am

tautologies wrote:
Fri Nov 17, 2017 5:54 pm
... All they [chinese copies] do is to suck resources out of an already small industry.
You have it backwards. The industry is small because you want to keep your profit margins ridiculously high. Every time a vendor decreases sale price the volume goes up. Abusing automotive analogy, one may think that there is more R&D in Ferrari than in, say, Accord, but I would beg to differ. The Accord, sales volume dwarfs that of Ferrari, and midsize car market is extremely competitive. Certainly, there is more R&D spent on Accord than on Ferrari. Yes, you won't find "exotic" materials such as carbon fiber on Accord, but this is besides the point.

BTW, thank you for the Real firesale tip. They have "happy" for $499 now. I don't need 3rd rig, but at that price I bought it just to try those wings.

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby Europ2 » Mon Nov 20, 2017 10:46 pm

Even better for Black Friday, the Liquid Force Rocket foil and board package is at 499USD :o :o
https://www.elitewatersports.com/produc ... e-package/

Happy foil only, improved version of the rocket foil is at 499USD (without board) at RealWS.
Last edited by Europ2 on Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:28 am, edited 1 time in total.

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tegirinenashi
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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby tegirinenashi » Mon Nov 20, 2017 11:42 pm

$499 for foil fish complete package seems to be a fair price, because they (LF) made significant improvements in the second generation (sealed thinner mast with longer chord, board track mounts, 3 straps, etc). It is a value judgement call, of course, if those little features are worth extra $300 (Foil $500 + board $300).

It cracks me up that essentially same foil-fish design with Naish name on it currently goes "on sale" for $700 for foil only.

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby spork » Tue Nov 21, 2017 2:58 am

Personally I think $499 for a complete FoilFish is a screaming deal. I thought it was a pretty damn good deal when I bought mine 2 years ago for $1000.

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby spork » Wed Nov 22, 2017 8:29 am

I'm thinking maybe that was too much of a screaming deal (or a typo). It's now listed at $949 rather than $499...

https://www.elitewatersports.com/produc ... package-2/


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