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Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

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Sandras
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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby Sandras » Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:04 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:54 am
What I am saying is: If I had never seen a Carafino, I would not have gotten into foiling back then. If the Carafino was actually a really well developed product, we would have never gotten into building one ourselves. However we saw a lot of things wrong with it and other Hydrofoils at the time (mainly the one piece T-Bar) and I wanted something better for myself.
What the Chinese are saying:
If there was a cheaper version we wouldn’t even bother competing.
However in a world of Audis we saw a market segment for Skoda’s, second grade materials and less strict quality checks but still an acceptable product at a fraction of the price.

They innovate the way Ryanair innovated! (And now copied from premium airlines with baggage as an extra)

Bluntly copying a design is immoral, even if done with different materials and I wouldn’t buy one mainly on moral grounds.
But I’m looking forward to seeing a generic “Chinese” 3rd party/aftermarket big (early lift) front wing for popular foils (LF, Slingshot, Zeeko, Moses etc) Strighy style
I’m sure that’s possible for their level. Anyway these designs are easier to get right.

If I were in their (Chinese) shoes, I would make an average of the existing “wave wings” (Maybe Zeeko Carver as a basis) and adjust the holes & aoa to fit the target fuselages.
Offer it at or below cost level for riders willing to test it and iterate a few rounds of improvements validation. (Send improved version to those that gave valuable feedback for low or no cost)
After getting an acceptable product in durability and performance, there should be still enough margin for half the “branded” price.
(The above is my assumption, I’m sure many will disagree that such a business case would fly)

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby spork » Fri Nov 24, 2017 7:25 pm

Sandras wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 5:04 pm
Bluntly copying a design is immoral, even if done with different materials and I wouldn’t buy one mainly on moral grounds.
Here's a related question just for fun...

Let's say you have a company that uses the "give away the razor to sell the blades" business model. Would you consider it immoral if other companies also sold the blades - even if they were similar enough to fit the razor, but not an exact copy?

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby Sandras » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:37 pm

tough luck
Last edited by Sandras on Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby jakemoore » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:08 pm

Every time this thread gets bumped I find myself contemplating buying a knockoff.

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby james » Sat Nov 25, 2017 9:47 am

Every time this thread gets bumped a little bit of me dies inside...

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby gmb13 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 11:20 am

tautologies wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:46 am
gmb13 wrote:
Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:54 am
What I am saying is: If I had never seen a Carafino, I would not have gotten into foiling back then. If the Carafino was actually a really well developed product, we would have never gotten into building one ourselves. However we saw a lot of things wrong with it and other Hydrofoils at the time (mainly the one piece T-Bar) and I wanted something better for myself.

--
Gunnar
So you are saying you copied Carafino and built on an innovation that Mango made? The shift made with Carafino to its predecessor was pretty radical, but he didn't create the first foil anyone kites on.

Also how do you know what the transpired in getting Kai on a foil? Its not like it was the first foil he ever rode. He started foiling way before Aguera made them. I mean I asked Agure to make me a SUP foil probably 6 years ago. He'd never made a foil before then. It didn't pan out, but I am not sure I would necessarily credit him with that innovation. SUP foils existed before that. It becomes very murky when you credit one or a few persons with something they have built based on others.
I' not trying to take anything away from Agurea and his products...my friends love them...but I think your position is a tad tendentious.
The Carafino got me into foiling, but we did not copy it.

Alex made the first really well working SUP foils. I have tried getting SUPfoiling to work well since 2013. Alex was the first to produce proper foils that made it easy. Every other decently working SUP foil since then has pretty much copied his concept with the bigger profiles and wings. So he is the real innovator for SUP foiling. Before that Kai got on a Go Foil he did not get it to work. It was the Go Foil that kicked it all off, so Alex deserves the Honors for making the leap forward that the rest if us did not think of at the time.

--
Gunnar

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby mercakite » Mon Dec 04, 2017 6:47 pm

Image
Image

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby Horst Sergio » Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:33 pm

@mercakite:

Very nice one :thumb: I am a fan :D , but fits maybe better here:

viewtopic.php?f=196&t=2390632

Since long wanted to build a symmetrisch foil out of a strut and to toilet lids, your photo inspires me to bring it on the water, to see if it will ride like a toilet :)

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby mercakite » Tue Dec 12, 2017 10:06 pm

Horst Sergio wrote:
Mon Dec 04, 2017 7:33 pm
@mercakite:

Very nice one :thumb: I am a fan :D

Thank you Sergio! :)

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby Oldman_Dave » Wed Dec 13, 2017 12:17 pm

Back on topic, has anyone tried the slingshot style foil rather than the takuma style?

https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/ ... 29307.html


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