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Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

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gmb13
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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby gmb13 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:02 pm

NYKiter wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 2:08 pm
I am involved in patents. Id be very interested in seeing some of these - can you list their numbers?

Looks like the only one out there is for Levitaz....generally to protect the way their fuse connects to the wing and mast....
EP 2907737 A1
Here you go:
Hydrofoil-based apparatus
Patent number: 9789935
Abstract: Disclosed is an apparatus, optionally mounted on a stand up paddle board, or surfboard, to lift the board above the water surface and support the board in a stable position above the water surface while a rider standing on the board and maintaining a speed in the water via paddling. In one embodiment, the apparatus includes a strut; a fuselage connected to said strut; a back foil portion connected to an aft end of said fuselage wherein the back foil portion includes two back wings extending outwardly from said aft end of said fuselage; and a forward foil portion connected to a fore end of said fuselage wherein the forward foil portion includes two front wings extending outwardly from said fore end of said fuselage and wherein the forward foil portion has a maximum thickness located at first distance from the fore edge of the forward foil portion.
Type: Grant
Filed: February 13, 2017
Date of Patent: October 17, 2017
Assignee: GO FOIL, INC.
Inventor: Alex Leslie Aguera

https://patents.justia.com/patents-by-u ... on/114/274

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby Peert » Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:39 pm

Frankly I am a bit surprised that such a patent gets granted since the principle of foil underneath a (kite/wind)surfboard was already common at the date of filing.
My Mitu convertible does not differ significantly from a surfboard. So the simple fact that the same setup is used with a different source of propelling power (wave vs wind ) makes it qualify for a patent?

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby TomW » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:42 pm

That patent cannot be valid due to prior art.

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby tautologies » Fri Dec 15, 2017 8:59 pm

Peert wrote:
Fri Dec 15, 2017 3:39 pm
Frankly I am a bit surprised that such a patent gets granted since the principle of foil underneath a (kite/wind)surfboard was already common at the date of filing.
My Mitu convertible does not differ significantly from a surfboard. So the simple fact that the same setup is used with a different source of propelling power (wave vs wind ) makes it qualify for a patent?
There might be some details in the patent application that isn't clear here, but if it is as generic as a foil attached to a SUP there is plenty of prior art. One company offered a SUP / Windsurf Foil combo...with a removable foil maybe 3 or so years ago..it was in production then at http://windsurfdeal.com/ with images and pricing. If you search youtube there was a guy SUP foiling waaaaay back.

I would be surprised if that patent held up. The foil was a AHD. http://www.ahd-boards.com/models/afs-1/
I was in contact with a shop who sold them. I remember the price was about $4500. Foil was offered at $2100.

Here is a pic of their product from 2015.
Attachments
DSCN0761.JPG

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby tautologies » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:35 pm

...here is a video from 2015:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VvBddeogeSE

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby NYKiter » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:35 pm

The gofoil overlaps with several other patents. Sometimes the reviewers just approve patents with overlap....sometimes they dont. I view the patent office as really just a formal library. They really dont protect anything....thats the attorney's job. When someone copies an invention, you can tell the attorney to go look it up - and then go scare them away....The gofoil figure is rather kooky....

https://photos.google.com/search/_tra_/ ... vlWw47WoJo

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby longwhitecloud » Fri Dec 15, 2017 10:43 pm

Nykiter, do u reckon my idea/drawing is worth anything here... http://kiteforum.com/viewtopic.php?f=1& ... ctric+foil


Could it effect other patent applications? There wouldn't be any prior art to this, as dodgy as my art skills were!

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby spork » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:59 am

You can talk about pretty much anything you like in a patent abstract and disclosure. But the only thing that's "patented" is what you outline in the claims. The 9789935 patent has only three independent claims, and they're bizarrely specific. For example, claim 1 requires that the profile of the mast must be widest at exactly the 1/2 chord point. It also says the mast must be between 18 and 30 inches long and that the front wing must have anhedral, a foil thickness of 14 to 17 percent, and that the thickest portion of the foil must be between 20 and 33 percent of the chord. So all you have to do to get around that claim is to be one hair outside *any* of those requirements. The same is true of the other independent claims, and you can't violate a patent without violating one or more of the independent claims.

There are two potential reasons for them to be so specific in their independent claims.
1) They're lousy at writing patents. This happens more than I would expect.
2) They had no choice. The only way to get a patent in light of prior art is for them to thread a very fine needle.

>> do u reckon my idea/drawing is worth anything here...

Worth anything in what way? Do you mean in the sense of patenting it? From the time of public disclosure (e.g. posting it on this forum) you have one year before your option to patent it runs out. Also, the first to file wins. So even if you drew that before someone else patented the idea, you can't patent it. You could potentially invalidate their patent if you can prove your idea was in the public domain before they filed.

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby NYKiter » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:40 pm

Im not an attorney.....but I am involved in a lot of patents. Do you need to be an attorney to submit a patent?

No

What if someone has a utility patent on your foil?

Create a 'design patent' and claim a different look....MUCH cheaper too....

Agree with Spork on the claims...why write such details when open claims give broader protection?

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Re: Chinese KB Hydrofoil : 300 USD + shipment

Postby spork » Sat Dec 16, 2017 4:19 pm

>> Create a 'design patent' and claim a different look....MUCH cheaper too....

Sure - if you have a specific look you can file a design patent for that specific look, but...
1) It will protect *only* that specific look. It doesn't prevent anyone from making the same product with any other look.
2) The existing utility patent still applies. You can't just go start selling your product with this specific look. Even if the look is different you'll still be violating the utility patent if it exists. So you'd have to license that patent to build and sell the product with your specific new look.


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