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Freeride, strapless foil advice

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grigorib
Frequent Poster
Posts: 378
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2016 8:12 pm
Kiting since: 2009
Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 7m/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m/15m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Best Kahoona 11.5m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Spleene Door 59, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Ghost Whisper 42"/545/328, Moses 71cm/548/325, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", Slingshot Coupe 6', Ocean Rodeo Mako 135, MBS Comp 95x
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby grigorib » Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:30 pm

tomi3000 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:33 am
...Before Spitfire, I had old MHL Lift 2013 foil with low aspects wings...
...
...
During my first sesh I was surprised when instead of foiling I entered mechanical bull phase and I could not figure out why. Then I realised that I needed to forget what it was like on my low aspect foil as I could take off with almost walking speed...
So I'm riding MHL Lift 2013 and love it for the lowend take off. Have you ever got back to ride at the same low speed on the new foil as on the Lift?
Have you been considering new, Liftfoils 110/130/150 models?

clint2070
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 553
Joined: Fri Jun 22, 2012 5:40 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Strand,Tourmaline,Stinkz,Belmont,Seal.
Favorite Beaches: C St, Naish beach, tourmaline,Strand, cabarete, San Quintin, La Ventana,Rauls,Nungas,Mancora,
Style: surf, freeride
Gear: Naish, Firewire, ride engine,Ford,liquid force, Zeeko.Tomo,
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby clint2070 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 5:17 am

tomi3000 wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 10:40 pm
clint2070 wrote:
Sat Aug 26, 2017 6:32 am
tomi3000 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:33 am
Curiosity won and I got myself a and toy: Zeeke Spitfire paired with Dwarfcraft 54 board.

I have had two sessions already. I am still a noob as I only started foiling earlier this year so my thoughts could be the same as for any beginner. Before Spitfire, I had old MHL Lift 2013 foil with low aspects wings and a low volume board and this is what I will be comparing it to as I have not had a chance to ride other foils.

For my first session, I installed XLW wings and followed an advice to move the foil to the front on the bottom track to help with balancing as Spitfire requires more equal foot pressure than a traditional foil. In water first I noticed how different Dwarfcraft behaved in comparison to my low volume board. Because I wanted to learn strapless I had it with two front Slingshot Foot Hooks and they don't give you a proper anchorage and a leverage against your foot but only little support. To water start, you need to tilt board with your back hand and coordinate precisely water start with kite movement while Spitfire sinks in water quite fast. I had some strapless experience from riding skimboard and directional so it was not a completely new territory for me but it requires more focus than water starts on a low volume board with straps. Let me just say here that I think Slingshot Foot Hooks are amazing! I can't believe that I was using foot straps for learning for all that time. With hooks, I feel so much more confident to try new things and to push my limits knowing that I will always be able to bail out from a crash. This can be only appreciated from having an experience when your foil folds like a jackknife, you get impaled on wings and your foot is still stuck on the board. Brilliant! As for the Dwarfcraft I like it - it has some volume to help with water starts, it is not too hard to tilt with one hand, the nose could be wider but if before nose diving you bear off little bit downwind it works just fine with touch downs. I can feel its weight when carrying on the beach, especially with installed an alu foil, as the whole setup is not the lightest but on the water, it feels fine so this is a non-issue for me as it is a trade off of affordability and durability I can live with.

During my first sesh I was surprised when instead of foiling I entered mechanical bull phase and I could not figure out why. Then I realised that I needed to forget what it was like on my low aspect foil as I could take off with almost walking speed. Spitfire even with XLW wings needs more speed and if you try to rush it will not work. So the next day I moved the foil to the rear position on the bottom track and I stayed focus on having front foot pressure during water start and initial phase. This time Spitfire went beautifully and I could not believe how natural and balanced it felt. I tried going fast and slow, linking small S turns and I am STOKED! I want more time on the water with it and also want to try the small wings to go even faster but for now, I can only say this is exactly what I wanted when I was looking for something faster and more fun than my previous foil.

Another good thing from a beginner point of view is how forgiving Spitfire is when front wing breaches of water surface. Sure you lose some traction and it drops you but you can still try to save it knowing that foot hooks will not catch your foot.
Thats Funny, I did the exact same thing ! Got my spitfire w wlx wings and the large dwarf craft. Ive only ridden it once with straps and today my 2 hooks came in the mail so i put them on. where do you have your foil set ? mine is barely forward of 1. do my hooks look like your set up ? didn't know wether to ditch the rear strap and go one hook in front and one in back or the way I have it set up in the pics. Would be good to know your opinion ! The only other foil Ive had is the Naish hover 160. Super easy to learn on but I didn't like the board. Kinda wish I didn't sell it and put like a skim board on it and shorter mast for surf foiling.I first tried to ride my spitfire strapless but theres so much volume in the dwarf craft and it was blowing like 9mph. I couldn't pull it off. I also want to get the large Naish Thrust Surf for the waves and because I can also put it on my sup. I actually think if I learned on the spitfire it would have been easier than the standard foil.IMG_0052.JPGIMG_0052.JPG
My first session I had was with a foil all the way to the front but for the second session, I moved it all the way to the back. Now, I have it at 4 and I will continue testing it and if I need more reactiveness I will be moving it more to the front. I only have 2 front foot hooks attached to the most forward position without any strap or hook for the rear foot. The reason for that is I move my feet a bit when riding and I like to see the difference it makes changing feet placement for how the foil behaves. I think the front hooks will help me to better feel the board when learning foot changes but my goal is strapless.

I also think that Spitfire with XLW wings could be used by a complete foil beginner to learn on but as looking back at my own progress I would say that learning on a big, stable board with some volume and nose rocker is more important in early stages then a hydrofoil choice.
Thanks ! I left my foil in the same position but moved my back strap from the furthest back position to the furthest forward position and it did wonders. I also love the front hooks but wish I bought a rear one too. I was thinking of just one in front and one in rear and no straps. now I have to pay shipping on just one hook. My goal is to also go strapless but the board has so much volume its hard to get up in crappy wind without at least having the hooks. I love how stable it is and how it just stops when you crash. My other one seemed to hunt me down some times. the spitfire goes as fast as I would think I would ever want to go too but I'm just a beginner. I think moving my foil around might confuse me a little too much.

tomi3000
Rare Poster
Posts: 16
Joined: Thu Aug 28, 2014 6:51 pm
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: Bournemouth
Style: FR strapless* (with foot hooks for now)
Gear: Gong Strutless
Zeeko Spitfire
Shinn Monk (such a good board)
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Freeride, strapless foil advice

Postby tomi3000 » Tue Aug 29, 2017 9:50 am

grigorib wrote:
Mon Aug 28, 2017 11:30 pm
tomi3000 wrote:
Thu Aug 24, 2017 10:33 am
...Before Spitfire, I had old MHL Lift 2013 foil with low aspects wings...
...
...
During my first sesh I was surprised when instead of foiling I entered mechanical bull phase and I could not figure out why. Then I realised that I needed to forget what it was like on my low aspect foil as I could take off with almost walking speed...
So I'm riding MHL Lift 2013 and love it for the lowend take off. Have you ever got back to ride at the same low speed on the new foil as on the Lift?
Have you been considering new, Liftfoils 110/130/150 models?
It took me a whole session to unlearn to take off using Spitfire with the same speed as with MHL 2013. Somehow my muscle memory wanted to push the board up immediately after water start as I was used to and that does not work with Spitfire the same way as with my old MHL. In comparison, Spitfire needs more speed initially to go up on a foil and to stay up but not a whole lot overall. Once up on the foil, it accelerates very easily so it is just a matter of that additional power stroke of the kite to reach the take off speed. I am very pleased with it.

Liftfoils are not available through the normal distribution channels in the EU.


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