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Foiling without a kite

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BWD
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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby BWD » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:38 pm

Pumping: may look silly but feels ok, especially if pumping for one minute is saving you from a 10 minute plus swim back to shore with kite, or taking a set on the head paddling and ducking to catch one wave.
Feels nice to pump through a wind lull or shadow while kiting, avoid water starting, kite dropping etc.

gbrungra
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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby gbrungra » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:08 pm

Foil pumping doesn't look as cool as it should (the concept is awesome!).

Possible invention: a foil that is sprung, and can rotate about its angle of attack (AoA) axis, just like the aquaskipper. So when the main foil feels more downward load, the spring compresses, and the foil rotates and decreases its angle of attack (maybe even into the negative range), and when it feels less load, the spring decompresses and the the foil AoA increases.

The spring could be adjusted to that at the normal rider weight the AoA would be its normal value (before my theoretical spring mechanism had been added). This normal-AoA-value might need to be set higher for a kite hydrofoiler, to account for the extra load of the kite, and lower for a SUP foiler, without a kite?

The upside would be foil pumping with lower changes in board angle each pump, so hopefully being able to get more power from both legs, because the legs would not need to move as much to achieve board angle change. Both legs could be used to produce downward force, which would be turned into forward thrust by the spring compressing and the foil AoA momentarily going negative.

Possible downside is tougher handling. For example, carving hard on a wave, now the AoA of your foil is changing through the carve. I'm sure Kai Lenny could figure out how to ride one, but it might be too weird for mortals to figure out.

Disclaimer: I'm just learning to hydrofoil w a kite, so I am just starting to scratch the surface of foil pumping.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:37 pm

When we are on the topic "pumping" - what is the experience with Canards ? (THE canard, as the two Zeeko sizes are the only ones present)

Is it the same as a regular setup ?
Is it easier ?
Is it more difficult or almost not possible ?

As if the rear foot bias is so evident, it might change things a lot.

Maybe many has not done it, so could be difficult to answer.

One way to "pump", is to fly the kite high, standing with feet at the center of the board (thus strapless the only way I think), and just bear off riding the small wind swells - really fun.

And now you can pump the foil to keep momentum, without any kitepull :D

8) PF

BWD
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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby BWD » Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:49 pm

One way to "pump", is to fly the kite high, standing with feet at the center of the board (thus strapless the only way I think), and just bear off riding the small wind swells - really fun.
:thumb:
I can’t do a lot on foil yet except the occasional jibe, but this is super fun!

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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby tomtom » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:00 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:37 pm
One way to "pump", is to fly the kite high, standing with feet at the center of the board (thus strapless the only way I think), and just bear off riding the small wind swells - really fun.

And now you can pump the foil to keep momentum, without any kitepull :D

8) PF

This seem like super fun! Could you /PF, BWD/ please elaborate this more. Is something like this https://youtu.be/5nIA8BeRXL0?t=271 ?

Also by standing at center of board - you mean like on skiis?

Many thanks!

Tomas

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Feb 05, 2018 9:28 pm

Hi Tomas, no not like skis.

Ride at good speed, fly the kite slowly up high, and let totally go of the bar (the kite will hang and drift for quite long) - now you have to put your forward foot over the center of the board, just like on a surfboard - to ride in balance :thumb:

Just the same as if you rode a wave hydrofoiling without a kite at all - you will be amazed how far you typically have to move to the center/leeward of your board, compared to your natural stance both with and without straps, when you have just the slightest kitepull :D

8) PF

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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby tomtom » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:17 am

thanks - i think i understand. I do same think on surfboard when I actually "surf" on surfboard. Turn downwind - let kite drift and move my feet to wide and centered stance and do my "surfing". Never experience it on HF - Im just starting... To busy to go straight :)

3InletsWindsports
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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Tue Feb 06, 2018 2:32 am

Whilst I’m not into pumping yet the Spitfire std. wings don’t seem to react to pumping but that is not to say someone who is experienced in that will not get results

juandesooka
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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby juandesooka » Tue Feb 06, 2018 3:17 am

yeah, the pumping is unfortunate ... as it looks terrible. If you are focused on outcomes, then it's a great means to an end: hard to argue with catching 11 waves in a row over 5 minutes without paddling. However, if you're into enjoying the overall journey, then there's about 4 of those 5 minutes spent madly pumping. Surfers hate on foilers for this as a major style violation, as the so called "Huntington Hop" pretty much destroyed the aesthetics of pro surfing for a while there.

Anyways, this is the no-kite foiling thread, so here's where I'm at. I have a takuma clone. Mounted it on my sup, got about 6 sessions in before it broke the mount. Frustrating, as just got to the point of being able to get up on foil on every wave, and ride for up to 15-20 seconds at a time. Still tentative, but getting it ... then no more fun, until I get it fixed. :-( But it's also a 9.3, which is ok for learning, but way bigger than you want to need for sup foil....too much swing weight, too much weight in general.

Now have it mounted to an oversize Ocean Rodeo Duke, and have had 4 kite sessions in training on it for the first paddle foil attempt. Pretty sure it's going to be doable, but we'll see. Pray for surf! It will be interesting to see how the pop up goes, will have to quick on that takuma, as it rises so fast with so little speed.

Things are evolving quickly in surf/sup foiling, with boards getting much smaller and also with a trend toward custom boards (not intended for or capable of being supped or surfed). I have obtained a firewire vanguard, kite version, that I intend to mount tracks in and hopefully get a 4-in-1 travel board: kitesurf, surf, kitefoil, surffoil. Anyone have any experience with foiling on a vanguard?

So there's my story, what are others doing?

PS Canard: once i have takuma mastered and am a competent intermediate, I want to carve a huge wing out of g10 and mount it canard style, experiment with that ... so few people doing it, I want to know if it's by design or just by not realizing possibilities.

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bragnouff
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Re: Foiling without a kite

Postby bragnouff » Tue Feb 06, 2018 11:38 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon Feb 05, 2018 8:37 pm
When we are on the topic "pumping" - what is the experience with Canards ? (THE canard, as the two Zeeko sizes are the only ones present)

Is it the same as a regular setup ?
Is it easier ?
Is it more difficult or almost not possible ?

As if the rear foot bias is so evident, it might change things a lot.

Maybe many has not done it, so could be difficult to answer.

One way to "pump", is to fly the kite high, standing with feet at the center of the board (thus strapless the only way I think), and just bear off riding the small wind swells - really fun.

And now you can pump the foil to keep momentum, without any kitepull :D

8) PF
With the Spitfire XLW, I can pump the foil in the lulls to maintain or regain lift, or when going deep downwind in the wind swell pump the board which slackens the lines, so I guess it does work pretty much the same as with a regular setup in terms of resulting effect. I'd need to do a bit of back and forth with a traditional foil to feel the difference, but I expect it would just take a few minutes of adjustment before it feels natural on either setup.


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