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-ing gear for the lightest of the winds

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fogmeister
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby fogmeister » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:59 am

we are very lucky to have multiple riders on different kites in the same conditions.........at the bottom end there comes a point where you might get on the board but just dont have the pull of the kite. With absolute certainty i can tell you that at some point with the 15m sonic2 there just isnt enough pull .......and the fun is gone........while guys on 18m sonic2 and 19m ozone r1 v2 are still flying with speed!. Then there comes a point where you cant get up on the 15 but still can on 19 and 18........in these winds an 11 or 12 , you cant even get on the wing. We even feel there is room for the 21m........in the end, even though we are splitting hairs........even on a foil the biggest kite will still go the lowest. I did not mention wind speeds as its just our observation of a full summer of riding.......bigger outlast smaller.......even in 15, 18, and 21 m sizes.

fogmeister
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby fogmeister » Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:03 am

....sometime the wind can drop quickly and it seems everyone has to get off at the same time and there appears to be no benefit to a bigger kite. However we are fortunate to have steady thermals which die out slowly, thus it becomes easy to experiment and notice that the bigger kite can still work for hours while a smaller one wouldnt.

also we are using big wings....with big kites.....they still beat at the very bottom end an 11 or 12m kite with big wing.

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davesails7
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby davesails7 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 1:38 pm

fogmeister wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 5:03 am
also we are using big wings....with big kites.....they still beat at the very bottom end an 11 or 12m kite with big wing.
Yeah, i still think that bigger kites are better. I've definitely seen that myself.

The thing I changed my mind about was how much of a benefit the big wings are. I'd heard people say that, but hadn't seen it myself. Also, I was impressed how stable in the air the Conceptair Pulsion is even compared to ultra light race kites.

I was thinking about it though, that day might have been about wind shear gradient as well. The two guys on 20-21m kites were on 15m lines. The guy on the 12m kite was on 30m lines. Because the wind was coming over the land, might have been much more wind up high. In my experience, lines longer than 20m don't usually help me, but if there was more wind up high that would change things.

fogmeister
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby fogmeister » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:18 pm

yes extensions do help.........generally you dont need more than 27m lines, the powerstroke alone helps even if there are no gradients higher. We also tried the shorter lines and they really suck the life/power out of a kite, that in combination with a racewing would be a disaster. Shorter lines are great when your well into the windrange of the kite, and want to tack like a pro!

fogmeister
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby fogmeister » Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:22 pm

about the pulsion concept air......i do believe its actually the lightest double skinned kite out there!?..........i have a feeling next year there will be some equally light monsters coming out from some of the bigger brands......hopefully!

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davesails7
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby davesails7 » Sun Nov 12, 2017 3:48 pm

fogmeister wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 2:22 pm
about the pulsion concept air......i do believe its actually the lightest double skinned kite out there!?
Yeah, it was pretty impressive. This was the extra light version. The guy riding it has both the regular Pulsion 12m and extra light Pulsion 12m. Surprisingly, he said he didn't notice any difference between the two, so would recommend the regular version for better durability.
fogmeister wrote: yes extensions do help.........generally you dont need more than 27m lines, the powerstroke alone helps even if there are no gradients higher. We also tried the shorter lines and they really suck the life/power out of a kite, that in combination with a racewing would be a disaster. Shorter lines are great when your well into the windrange of the kite, and want to tack like a pro!
The extensions definitely help on smaller kites, but on the 18m I don't notice any difference. I've tried my 18m on lines ranging from 17m to 27m. 20m lines a slightly better than 17m lines because I can loop it no problem on the 20m lines, but I didn't notice any benefit on the 27m lines. All other racers I've talked to have said the same. I haven't really done a back to back test though, so can't say for sure. Maybe combining with a bigger non-race wing makes the difference?

Whether they help or not, I really don't like hydrofoiling with 27m lines on an 18m kite. It's much nicer on the 17m lines. With 27m lines I feel overpowered very quickly going upwind.

fogmeister
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby fogmeister » Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:08 pm

ya kinda agree on the 27 m lines getting overpowered quickly.........it does give some nice extra float when redirecting on lightwind boosting( which makes a 15 -20 foot boost more fun.)

......but other than that its really only if you have a 15m or less and want to squeeze maybe another 1/2 knot out of it, or it truly is doming wind higher and you think the only way to reach it is with extensions.

:cheers:

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby bigtone667 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:04 am

I am confused as to why you would get over powered by the longer lines once your kite is set. Is it because the kite sits back a little in the wind window due to the additional line drag?

I fly a Cloud, and the best light wind setup for me is 25 to 30m race lines in super light conditions. I only ever use the short lines (20m) with some decent wind.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Nov 13, 2017 9:18 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:04 am
I am confused as to why you would get over powered by the longer lines once your kite is set. Is it because the kite sits back a little in the wind window due to the additional line drag?

I fly a Cloud, and the best light wind setup for me is 25 to 30m race lines in super light conditions. I only ever use the short lines (20m) with some decent wind.

I cant feel any difference in power with short versus long lines either, upwind (or downwind) or halfwind.

But when you ride quite powered (racing t.ex) there is a huge difference, as short lines will make you able to avoid long powersweeps so you can in reality ride in a lot more wind now.
Especially because with foil kites you have too much power way too fast for freeriding - when they got the long powersweep.
Going straight it does not mean anything really - maybe if super gusty, but this is never the case in "the lightest of the winds" :naughty:

And on the other hand, for freeride you WANT the long powersweep and a smaller kite if possible, as it will give you more harmonic turns, a faster kite, and the ability to make foiling jibes more smooth :D

So exactly as you bigtone, I use short lines (in my world) 26 m when powered, and 30-31 m when light or marginal winds, both with light LEI kites or not too big foil kites.

Some says that when you get up into 18 m2 kites, longer lines does not help ?
I have no idea, but sounds a bit odd though ?

8) PF

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Pedro Marcos » Mon Nov 13, 2017 10:38 am

Ive tested back to back between 16-19-25 lines in light winds, with my Chrono V2 15m UL, a Chrono V2 18m and a R1V1 15m and for me longer lines make a difference if you are in the lower limit of the kite, in the 18m the powerstoke its so small with 16m that it gets a nightmare to use it in the lower limit, with you wanting a bigger stroke and often touching with the wingtips on the water. With 19m it makes a big diference from the 16m, everything is already much easier, and from 19 to 25m you get just a little more.

But i find a big diference between the medium/high AR kite (chrono) and the race kite (r1v1), being the race kite much harder to fly in the lower limit BUT with higher peak power so easier to waterstart.


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