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-ing gear for the lightest of the winds

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davesails7
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Posts: 2013
Joined: Sun Apr 01, 2007 7:36 pm
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Local Beach: Virginia Beach
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Gear: Delta Hydrofoil and Board
Flysurfer Sonic2 9m,11m,15m,18m
OR Mako 130x35
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby davesails7 » Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:10 pm

Not exactly sure what the difference is with shorter lines, but you can definitely feel the difference. It's only a benefit when riding with power. I now ride about the same sizes I'd ride to be powered on a twintip (15m up to 16 kts, 11m up to low 20s).

The benefit that I feel from the shorter lines is you can get the kite where it needs to be in the window much quicker because it has a shorter distance to travel. If you're overpowered and need to move it up in the window and slow down, you can get it to the top of the window before you get pulled over the foil.

Also when the kite is surging in gusts, it doesn't move as far forward and back.

I wouldn't have guessed short lines make that much of a difference overpowered, but they definitely do.

When I get to my low end though, I'm looping the 18m and it isn't pulling me up on the board at all. About that same time, it can't complete the loop and just backstall onto the water. In that case, I feel like a longer loop wouldn't help because the kite just isn't generating enough pull to do anything, even in the middle of the loop. An 18m foil kite on 20m lines in 5 kts with bar pulled in actually takes pretty long to loop anyway, much longer than a smaller inflatable. Maybe I'd get an extra few tenths of a knot of low end from longer lines (I haven't done much testing) but I don't think it's worth it dealing with the longer lines. Foiling on the 18m is no fun on lines longer than 20m for me.

grigorib
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Local Beach: Clinton Lake, IL; Lake Michigan; Tawas, MI; OBX; SPI
Gear: Kites: Slingshot Rally 7m/8m/11m, Slingshot Turbine 9m/15m, Flysurfer Speed4 10m, Best Kahoona 11.5m, Peter Lynn Venom II ARC 16m
Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Spleene Door 59, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Ghost Whisper 42"/545/328, Moses 71cm/548/325, Slingshot Dwarfcrafts 42"/54", Slingshot Coupe 6', Ocean Rodeo Mako 135, MBS Comp 95x
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby grigorib » Mon Nov 13, 2017 4:27 pm

davesails7 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:10 pm
...I now ride about the same sizes I'd ride to be powered on a twintip (15m up to 16 kts, 11m up to low 20s).
That's foiling progression :)
1. regular size kite for learning
2. "hell yeah, I can foil under much smaller kite" once you've got it
3. "I can handle more power" (and back to regular size) once you can edge a lot
davesails7 wrote:
Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:10 pm
An 18m foil kite on 20m lines in 5 kts with bar pulled in actually takes pretty long to loop anyway, much longer than a smaller inflatable.
Looping a foil or a strutless kite certainly doesn't deliver same quick power stroke as when looping more rigid wave kite.

As for long lines, I used them in the beginning of my foiling progression, I'd use them now when I'm lazy to switch to a bigger kite.
Certainly initial powerstroke is much better flying an inflatable on long lines and that's been helping me in lightwind a lot.

Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
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foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Regis-de-giens » Mon Nov 13, 2017 5:17 pm

A lot of good comments from fogmeister and davesails7 ;
fogmeister wrote:
Sun Nov 12, 2017 4:59 am
at some point with the 15m sonic2 there just isnt enough pull .......and the fun is gone........while guys on 18m sonic2 and 19m ozone r1 v2 are still flying with speed!. Then there comes a point where you cant get up on the 15 but still can on 19 and 18........in these winds an 11 or 12 , you cant even get on the wing. We even feel there is room for the 21m........in the end, even though we are splitting hairs........even on a foil the biggest kite will still go the lowest.
I am a hyperlight wind seaker and have the chance to be very light weight, so touching extreme marginal winds; I can confirm that even with my light weight , the lower wind you target, the higher kite size you will need to keep planing and upwind (assuming that the weight of the kite allows the kite to say in the air this winds) ; then you'll have to adapt the line length (so, add extensions basically), (and/or board volume but this is the hardest to change and can be in detriment of waterstart in marginal winds), up to get a loop or a kite drop long enough to lift you on the board (longer line will give you both longer pull but also and mainly limit your need to pull one rear line during the loop, which kill kite speed so kite power); then you will have tor increase your hydrofoil wing up to be able to foil-up with few pumping actions.

For example in my case, I started hyper light wind with a old very light Speed2 Silver Arrow (lighter than s4 Lotus), around 6-7 knots ; then I found out that the Pulsion 12m was more agile and allowed my to generate more pull during waterstart and it covered the same low end finally, but with more fun and comfort; then thanks to Pulsion's wonderful stays in the air in few wind, I tried to ride in lower winds: I saved a bit but rapidly the power in waterstarts and park and ride was not enough ; So I bought a Pulsion 15m2 (hyperlight weight, the lightest in the world IMO : 1900 gr) and I actually saved some precious half-knots for watertstarts and ride ; So currently I have approximatelly the same low end limit for the three necessary phases :
A- go backward out of shore
B- waterstart and foil-up with long lines (30m)
C- park and ride upwind
( we could add D-Returning to shore with swimming loops in even lower winds with is important to keep the kite dry ...)

It is great to have these 3 phases well balanced ; however since I have been told that the P18m was hanging in the air with even a bit less wind, I decided to replace my P15m by P18m, assuming that all 3 phases will be improved (A is the less certain, but B and C alone could save some swimming back to shore in lulls); I suppose I will have less or almost no additional wind margin to keep the kite in the air to body-drag back to shore ;
... 18m received last week : 2414 gr on a professional scale.

fogmeister
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby fogmeister » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:07 pm

thats super light!..........please keep us updated on your flights on the P18m.

fogmeister
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby fogmeister » Mon Nov 13, 2017 7:15 pm

this 950 square cm alpine foil high aspect wing and the p18m could be the super ultra light wind holy grail setup! We are using this wing and it makes it stupidly easy to get up in no wind....and can still reach 25 knots. At this point its all about the kite and how big and light it is.
19894926_1717834184896748_1731749340494405378_n.jpg

bigtone667
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Favorite Beaches: Umina Beach, Birdies Beach, Lake Munmorah, Canton, Le Morne
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Slingshot Skim Board, North Surfboards, BRM Paipo, Shinn Shinnster/Jackson, Firewire Boards, CrazyFly Doors, Zeeko Carver/Spitfire Foils, Naish Hover 155, Naish Thrust Surf Foil, Konrad Foil
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby bigtone667 » Sun Nov 19, 2017 9:34 pm

My light wind gear now consists of a 13.4m Cloud with 25m Race Lines (might go longer), Naish Hover 150 skim board (early planing), Naish Surf Thrust wing (1200cm2).

I thought the Zeeko Carver was good for light wind, but I have no issues getting up in 7 or 8 knots first go now on the Fat wing. Not sure how low I can go, but I was doing things yesterday that I couldn't do on the Carver.


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