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-ing gear for the lightest of the winds

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Regis-de-giens
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Style: 62 kg , light wind
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foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Regis-de-giens » Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:50 am

I am a hyperlight wind seaker for years, and my prefered combo is now a large foil ( Ketos Easy) and a medium Aspect ratio foilkite (Conceptair Pulsion) , which stays in the air with even lower winds than a FS peak (test back to back, thanks to a 27gr/m2 cloth) ;

If your research is really the Ultimate light wind, to me this kite is far better than others (I don't sell this kite and also rides with several other brands); This is confirmed by ALL testers of the Pulsion without exeption: no other kite has such a zenith ability associated to an efficient boost for waterstart ; its design feature ( between race foil kite and LEI to make it short) will be far more adapted to Hydrofoil than a peak !!! Personnally I did not like my previous peak ( v1) so much, lack of fun and speed. Before the Pulsion exists, I even tried to modify an old FS speed2 19m Silver Arrow ( very light kite) into single skin ... but I stopped its tuning when I discovered the Pulsion 12m then 15m;

The main drawback with a foilkite is if you have to swimm back to shore (often in very light winds) , then the peak has the advantage of being easy to pack with no water inside 8)
Last edited by Regis-de-giens on Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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abel
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby abel » Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:27 pm

Sorry to hear about your experience Flag53; and a big thanks for shearing.
I'm still waiting for a serious and trustable review about the Airush Ultra 12 and 15 for the sub 10 knots conditions. :roll:
I have a LF Solo 12. It has a fair floating capability but it's still quite susceptible to <6 knots lulls .
The Airush Ultra 12 weights 0.6 kg less and I wonder if it will eat those @#$%&# lulls better. So much for the 15 as it has a slightly better weight/area ratio.
I can live having a swim in once per session, but not three times in a row :(

I trust P. Frank statement that the latest LEIs behave as well as foils under lully conditions, still I have the need to sense it personally (different seas and skill level :wink: )
Peter_Frank wrote: .....
Earlier only (light) foil kites could hang in low wind, nowadays the LEI kites can hang just as good as foil kites, some even better.
Peter: its seems that you're pimping PMU :lol:
Being wiser now, I will say you wont get the ultimate marginal wind kite at all, as we all know now that the strutless and onestrut and other light LEI kites can hang in way less wind than you can ride.

8) PF

grigorib
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Spleene Door 59, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Ghost Whisper 42"/545/328, Moses 71cm/548/325, Lift 150/36", Slingshot Dwarfcrafts 42"/54", Slingshot Coupe 6', Ocean Rodeo Mako 135, MBS Comp 95x
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby grigorib » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:29 pm

Flag53 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:34 am
I bought a 12m Peak 3 and I'll tell you know it's Not the answers to your light wind prayers .

Sure it'll sit at the side of the window in next to no wind , but it's just not powerful or fast enough for light wind foiling .

So much so that I've now sold it ( at a big loss ) after three months
Ouch. Thanks for the feedback!

grigorib
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Spleene Door 59, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, MHL Lift 2013, Slingshot Ghost Whisper 42"/545/328, Moses 71cm/548/325, Lift 150/36", Slingshot Dwarfcrafts 42"/54", Slingshot Coupe 6', Ocean Rodeo Mako 135, MBS Comp 95x
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby grigorib » Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:45 pm

Off Peak topic then, so what about LEIs?
- I've never had a chance to see the Conceptair Pulsion, curious
- LF Solo seems to be in a good account
- Cloud built a nice hype (though I demoed a 17m in spring and it was a disaster - nice solid zenith but the moment I dove it the eartips came close getting me a "C" kite and no pull, and slow powerless loops)
- I demoed Airush Lithum 3 years ago and had similar feeling as of the 17m Cloud above
- I think some folks recommended OR Flite

I've been foiling under 2012 Rally's which are quite light and deliver fast looping and good power from the looping compared to strutless/1-strut kites.

Flag53
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Flag53 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:01 pm

As far as inflatables go I really like my Reo v4 12m but for me the low end is about 12mph because that's the minimum wind I need to relaunch out of my depth.

But taking another leap of faith as there's next to no reviews , I've ordered a 15m Ultra which is primarily for my wife for her light wind kite on a surfboard , although I'm sure she won't mind me trying it on the foil 😉

So as soon as I've tried it out which should be within a few weeks then I'll do a review .

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Peter_Frank
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:35 pm

grigorib wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 2:45 pm
Off Peak topic then, so what about LEIs?
- I've never had a chance to see the Conceptair Pulsion, curious
- LF Solo seems to be in a good account
- Cloud built a nice hype (though I demoed a 17m in spring and it was a disaster - nice solid zenith but the moment I dove it the eartips came close getting me a "C" kite and no pull, and slow powerless loops)
- I demoed Airush Lithum 3 years ago and had similar feeling as of the 17m Cloud above
- I think some folks recommended OR Flite

I've been foiling under 2012 Rally's which are quite light and deliver fast looping and good power from the looping compared to strutless/1-strut kites.

The Pulsion is a foilkite.

LF Solo is good but not perfect in marginal wind, a bit too heavy eventhough it has really good power and grunt, but slow. Upper end also lacking somewhat.

Clouds, dont know personally, but I would think 17 m2 is too big for good powerspike/loop, but the next size down much better in this respect ?

Airush, dont know - only tried a 6 m2 Ultra (which was great) so no idea about the big ones, but on paper they sounds good... (which you can not use for anything :roll: )

OR Flite are recommended, and a friend of mine had a 10 and a 13 m2, really good but not superlight so good for crossovers to other boards or for higher winds also because of the struts.

I got a Zeeko Notus Air 12 m2 onestrut, it is lighter than the LF but not superlight as the strutless.
Hangs easy in less wind than I can ride, which is my main goal, and has good range and fast, but you can find kites with less range that starts earlier.

The Storm Voyagers are incredible in marginal wind, hangs in "nothing", and can even be relaunched where others give up, and quite powerful, lacking a bit of upper end of course.
Maybe the Gong strutless are something similar, but noone here got these, and I havent flown them.

North Mono has loads of power, some find it too powerful so difficult for hydrofoiling - I dont know their weight.



IMO:

High AR foilkites are by far the best for pushing the marginal low end.
When sufficient for light LEI kites they have many practical advantages, and as said, they hang as good, and in some cases better and dont fold, than racefoilkites.
These no or onestrut kites with bottom end, will typically not have same comfy range and not behave when powered, like strutted kites.
Light strutted kites will give you a crossover to either hydrofoil in the upper end, or use it for other boards, but can of course not match the lighter no or onestruts in marginal wind.

8) PF

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby jash999 » Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:40 pm

Been using the Airush Ultra 15 for a few weeks. Typical conditions are 7-10 knots, often onshore winds with some current, and high temperatures. I can only compare it to my Chrono ultralight 15: Chrono is great down to 6-7 knots when you want to go for long tacks, few transitions, stays in the air with no issues. Ultra 15 is good down to 7-8 knots but loops very easily so even in lulls below 7-8 knots you can save it if it looks like it'll drop or loop to waterstart easily. I've had to relaunch from the water once in 7ish knots and it was no problem. Over 8 knots it's very stable overhead.

So I find I use the ultra unless it's really superlight. Even then for gybes, going downwind looping etc. or practicing anything, the ultra is way more fun and almost as stable in the air without the risk of the long swim with wet kite. So I'd give it an A+ in 7 - 10 knots (but I have never used Pansh or other light wind kites to compare, only the Chrono)

Only drawback for me is the airush bag which (others agree with me) is almost useless, so I use an old paraglider bag instead.

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abel
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby abel » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:23 pm

jash999 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:40 pm
Been using the Airush Ultra 15 for a few weeks. Typical conditions are 7-10 knots, often onshore winds with some current, and high temperatures. I can only compare it to my Chrono ultralight 15: Chrono is great down to 6-7 knots when you want to go for long tacks, few transitions, stays in the air with no issues. Ultra 15 is good down to 7-8 knots but loops very easily so even in lulls below 7-8 knots you can save it if it looks like it'll drop or loop to waterstart easily. I've had to relaunch from the water once in 7ish knots and it was no problem. Over 8 knots it's very stable overhead.

So I find I use the ultra unless it's really superlight. Even then for gybes, going downwind looping etc. or practicing anything, the ultra is way more fun and almost as stable in the air without the risk of the long swim with wet kite. So I'd give it an A+ in 7 - 10 knots (but I have never used Pansh or other light wind kites to compare, only the Chrono)

Only drawback for me is the airush bag which (others agree with me) is almost useless, so I use an old paraglider bag instead.
Thanks jash :thumb:
Finally there is a good review about the Airush Ultra 15.
The review is good as the same rider compares it with one of the best foils for the purpose, in similar conditions, for more than one session;
hence the reliability of the "resolution" as well as the "accuracy" of the results is high.
Two additional reviews like this and I reconvert from foil (didn't buy one yet :wink: ) to Single Strut LEI (lighter than the one I have).
(though I'm still hoping I'll be able to put my own lousy hands on a Ultra next week for testing :naughty: )
@ PF: sorry for using your favorite smiley :wink2:

grigorib
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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby grigorib » Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:40 pm

jash999 wrote:
Wed Aug 30, 2017 4:40 pm
...Chrono is great down to 6-7 knots when you want to go for long tacks, few transitions, stays in the air with no issues....
That's my stereotype of an HA, high efficiency foil kite - all the upwind and speed you want and as long as you don't transition much it works amazing.
The moment you need a kite that actually can drift as you're carving downwind - it becomes a slow collapsing bummer. And for the ultimate lghtwind it's an end of a session.
With 12-14m Rally 2012 I can downloop the kite quick and get power of that loop too, and with no/one-strut kites it seems not to be a case with flutter slowing the kite down.

What do you do to work around those problems?

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Re: -ing gear for the lightest of the winds

Postby coleman » Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:26 am

with my old 10m speed 4 lotus and my XLP wing on the alpine foil i was able to ride in 7-10kt days.....lulls to less than 5kts and gusts to 10kts. kite sits at zenith beautifully in almost no wind. if it hits the water its incredibly easy to relaunch in 5-7kts.

prob at 12m would be the money size for really light air for my weight.


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