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Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 8:39 am
by Peter_Frank
Jzh_perth wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:20 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:41 pm
I would highly warn against using a short 70 cm mast for kitefoiling in the surf, too short and not good IMO :(

For SUP it should be fine, but that is a very different thing.

8) PF
Hi PF. I am now riding a 76cm mast exclusively in the surf with a Takuma SUP foil no problems. In fact, it makes the foil a bit more responsive too. Gunnar uses his with 60cm regularly. I see Stef from Ketos also uses shorter mast in waves too

https://vimeo.com/226702637

I think long mast is more of a course racing thing where they ride upwind for long distances and rail clearance to water is an issue. I find in waves I am more upright and clearance from the rail to water is not an issue.

Can not comment on these, as I was not commenting the SUP/Takuma style huge slow wings, but my experiences on typical medium and big foilwings in steep waves - as said in other threads, two different species :D

8) PF

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:36 am
by Dwight
Slappysan wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 2:02 am
Dwight wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 12:55 am
Starting it flat is also super hard.
I'm curious why it's hard to start flat.
I’m referring to it being hard to get kite to pull you up to your feet. Once standing, it’s easy to foil it.

Getting to your feet on a massive sup, is nothing like getting up strapless on a surfboard. Surfboard is easy by comparison

Strapless of course.

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:55 pm
by tegirinenashi
Dwight wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:36 am
Getting to your feet on a massive sup, is nothing like getting up strapless on a surfboard. Surfboard is easy by comparison

Strapless of course.
I'm curious why too. If it is massive, then it can be treated as immobile object, e.g. a wall in a pool. Does getting up on a pool coping/desk look difficult? The only reason I can think of is the keel still playing game destabilizing the board.

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2017 6:16 pm
by Slappysan
Dwight wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 11:36 am
I’m referring to it being hard to get kite to pull you up to your feet. Once standing, it’s easy to foil it.

Getting to your feet on a massive sup, is nothing like getting up strapless on a surfboard. Surfboard is easy by comparison
With the board being 120L as long as you weigh under 100 kg you just stand up. You can even put your kite down on the water first, stand up then relaunch it. I'm only 72 kg so I could probably stand on the 95L version just fine, but it is fairly narrow at 27.5".

Also I think being able to stand up while doing light wind relaunch will make it easier to launch in threshold winds.

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2017 8:40 pm
by airsail
I borrowed the Thrust large sup wing from the local shop to try on my Thrust KS. Worked very well, stable and quite uasable. It was on a 70 cm mast, although heavy on the beach it is neutrally buoyant so the weight was irrelevant in the water. Breaching the foil was nearly a slight drop, you could breach multiple times and not go in, probably due to the very thick cross section and area of the wing.
Starting was the only point that was slightly tricky, that massive wing would come up almost vertically if you weren't quick getting your weight forward. It can fly at extreme slow speed, probably walking pace and managed 32 kph top speed from it which was a surprise for such a large wing,
I didn't change the rear stab, just used the KS one and it worked just fine. So if your chasing a foil that can be used for SUP and kiting, the Naish SUP foil will do both.

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:07 am
by revhed
Peter_Frank wrote:
Wed Sep 20, 2017 9:41 pm
I would highly warn against using a short 70 cm mast for kitefoiling in the surf, too short and not good IMO :(
8) PF
I would highly suggest that contrary citing the following reasons. :idea:
Many of the better wave riders here are now using slower, bigger, thicker front wings using 70, 75 cm STRUTS with huge success!
Note that this is mostly on the Med sea which has waves not so often and when have not clean, but will apply in many spots.
Why shorter,
Easier to water start when onshore wind while not running aground.
T bar will go vertical slower, giving sometimes much needed time to water start.
Better to be in the waves close to the shore again to not bottom out.
Better faster yaw control.
If one does bottom out less lever force on the KBHF for its health and that of the pilot.
Easier to handle when walking out, in thru waves.
A shorter STRUT made of exactly the same lay up will be stronger in all ways.
If rider gets separated from KBHF and it gets driven ashore by waves, less length will allow less lever force when wings bottom out and waves push board.
Crashes also will have less impact as less high, and less lever.
While it is certainly true that a shorter (STRUT) leaves less margin for pitch, a skilled pilot is needed but the compromise seems well worth it.
So while PF is a well warranted, respected poster here I submit this info for those possibly out of touch with other locals, info who may have
possibly better, different experience. :thumb:

R H

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 9:07 am
by Peter_Frank
Please understand, as I wrote, I am not talking about the bigger thicker slower front wings, regarding being careful not to choose too short a mast, but about the typical allroundwings used by many :D

Of course there are advantages of shorter masts too, particularly when at low spots/breaks, but also very difficult almost impossible when windy and short steep "wind"waves like in many spots, and here a longer mast say 80-90 cm at least is way easier and better IMO - that was my point.

There are two sides of this :rollgrin:

8) Peter

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:14 pm
by ciscokitesurfer
I am thinking of buying a foil wind for surfing and kite surfing. Thank you for the information.

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:23 pm
by Seabizzle
tegirinenashi wrote:
Thu Oct 05, 2017 5:55 pm
[quote=Dwight post_id=991370 time=1507199789

I'm curious why too. If it is massive, then it can be treated as immobile object, e.g. a wall in a pool. Does getting up on a pool coping/desk look difficult? The only reason I can think of is the keel still playing game destabilizing the board.
The sup cannot be thought of as an immovable object it is a float and drifting at all times. The problem with using a sup to kite on is that as you climb up on the sup and get to your feet the sup drifts towards the kite losing tension in the lines and making it difficult to fly the kite in marginal winds. You then need to build forward speed before you can get enough edge to gainTension in the lines. Sup kiting is actually a lot more difficult ( and less functional) than you would think, I am an avid sup surfer and kiter and having given sup kiting a bit of a go I put it firmly in the why bother category. Adding a foil might improve the situation but that's an experiment I wouldn't invest in.

Relaunching a kite whilst standing on a sup would be very difficult especially in light winds. Once again the sup drifts towards the kite killing all the tension in the lines and if your kite was in the water you would quickly drift into your lines which could get messy. I would definitely choose relaunching whilst swimming over being on the sup.

No trying to shun your ideas just want to offer my thoughts and experiences

Re: Naish Foiling 2018

Posted: Tue Oct 10, 2017 8:33 pm
by Slappysan
Seabizzle wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:23 pm
Sup kiting is actually a lot more difficult ( and less functional) than you would think, I am an avid sup surfer and kiter and having given sup kiting a bit of a go I put it firmly in the why bother category. Adding a foil might improve the situation but that's an experiment I wouldn't invest in.
I take my son and other kids on my iSUP from time to time and it's lots of fun. I agree that kiting on a SUP is hard, but it's just a learning curve and once you get it dialed in it's totally fine. Using an iSUP is an advantage though as you don't have to worry about your hook messing up your board. Tacks are almost impossible on a sup though, and jibes are hard. But with a foil the should be easy enough.
Seabizzle wrote:
Tue Oct 10, 2017 5:23 pm
Relaunching a kite whilst standing on a sup would be very difficult especially in light winds. Once again the sup drifts towards the kite killing all the tension in the lines and if your kite was in the water you would quickly drift into your lines which could get messy. I would definitely choose relaunching whilst swimming over being on the sup.
While I think climbing out of the water on to the board might prove tricky, especially with a hook based harness once you are on top of the board on your knees you can paddle the board 10x better than you could swim so getting tension in the lines will be easy.