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How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:48 am

edt wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:32 am
It's not about skilled = never swim. more like who wants to push their limits. Some days I don't feel so like swimming so only launch if it's good other days I don't care how low it is or how bad the lulls I'm going for it. so not really about skills but how much you feel like testing yourself. some kiters never swim not becuase they are amazing but because they are simply a bit more cautious

You are absolutely right, that how often you swim is not based on skill only, but har far you go, and how low you go and push it.

But, having said that, everything else being equal, skill is by far the major part of avoiding a swim/drop, no doubt at all, even more important than the kite and conditions IMO.


It somehow grows during the years for most rider, meaning:

When starting most ride with say their 12 m2 heavy LEI kite well lit in 10-12 knots.
When getting better, you ride in less wind so not overpowered when foiling, 9-10 knots with the 12, but it will drop very often and be a PITA in every way, so you get a lighter LEI or a foilkite instead.
Great, now you can ride in 8-9 knots, but you will still mess up now and then.
More time and experience and you will soon avoid getting it in the drink, and also make you able to ride in 6-8 knots instead with the same gear, and now you will start dropping it again on occasion.
When you have fully mastered this discipline after some years at least, you will hardly never mess up in above conditions, but can ride in maybe 4-6 knots, and again you will drop the kite now and then no matter how skilled and experienced.

So you keep pushing the low end with experience, thus the risk of dropping it increases, but so does your skill, so it almost evens out :rollgrin:

The rider around here having the most long swims, is a really good racer who rides very far and take the chance in marginal winds with the 15 and 18 m2 racekite - so having quite a number of really long swims from miles out also, after a packdown.
But he is also an expert and can ride and keep his kite flying in even the lowest winds, where you can not foil nomore - a HUGE difference in skill, so he will hardly never drop a kite, compared to a medium to highly skilled rider in the same conditions :wink:

8) PF

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby cwood » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:49 am

edt wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:32 am
It's not about skilled = never swim. more like who wants to push their limits. Some days I don't feel so like swimming so only launch if it's good other days I don't care how low it is or how bad the lulls I'm going for it. so not really about skills but how much you feel like testing yourself. some kiters never swim not becuase they are amazing but because they are simply a bit more cautious
This ....but you need to re-calibrate heavily for a foil. I am generally quite conservative and hate swimming but the foil has meant that I have swum more frequently than I would have ever imagined. :-) Kite is the main reason....I am a foil kite rider and my Speed5's are great kites but don't like the low end of their ranges...especially the 15. 8 knots and I'm fine, a lull at the wrong time....done like dinner. The same kite in fluffy form like a V2 or a Diablo and it would stay in the air when the speed would not.

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Oct 13, 2017 12:50 pm

cwood wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:49 am
my Speed5's are great kites but don't like the low end of their ranges...especially the 15. 8 knots and I'm fine, a lull at the wrong time....done like dinner. The same kite in fluffy form like a V2 or a Diablo and it would stay in the air when the speed would not.
Fully agree ; there are huge differences in the frequency of swimming depending on the foil kite model ; stability, agility and among all light weight play a huge role on that frequency (Speed5 and Sonic 1 are not good on this weight feature); Even if swim frequency may remain the same in the end , because some of us will then try to ride in even lower winds if their good kites hangs better in the sky ...

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby plummet » Fri Oct 13, 2017 6:21 pm

edt wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:32 am
It's not about skilled = never swim. more like who wants to push their limits. Some days I don't feel so like swimming so only launch if it's good other days I don't care how low it is or how bad the lulls I'm going for it. so not really about skills but how much you feel like testing yourself. some kiters never swim not becuase they are amazing but because they are simply a bit more cautious
I hardly ever swim. It's not because I'm cautious. Im quite silly usually. It's because I have more fun things to do than try and foil batshit boring foil conditions.

On the other side of it location plays a big part. Here the wind is pretty repeatable. It's unlikely to switch off randomly. So whether you swim or not is fully dependant on kite and board skill not wind dropping out.

I have a buddy who lives in Singapore and he'll tells me the wind in the 6-9 knot range randomly switched on and off. So swimming is a usual occurance regardless of kite skill.

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby Mossy 757 » Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:37 pm

abel wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:52 pm
Mossy 757 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:37 pm
I think the first question to answer is, are you landing all of your foiling tacks and gybes? If not, the swimming will continue until you figure the other stuff out, or buy a better kite for those conditions.
No jibes yet.
And yes, I'm looking for a better kite for those conditions (considering the Ultra but I'm not sure it is such a big difference vs the Solo I have).
Also considered a foil but after all those swim ins now I'm reluctant.
I was worried too before I bought my first foil kite. You just don't drop them as much. Yeah, in total lulls, they suck. But when it's marginal, it's amazing how they just refuse to fucking crash compared to an LEI.

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:09 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 7:37 pm
abel wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:52 pm
Mossy 757 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:37 pm
I think the first question to answer is, are you landing all of your foiling tacks and gybes? If not, the swimming will continue until you figure the other stuff out, or buy a better kite for those conditions.
No jibes yet.
And yes, I'm looking for a better kite for those conditions (considering the Ultra but I'm not sure it is such a big difference vs the Solo I have).
Also considered a foil but after all those swim ins now I'm reluctant.
I was worried too before I bought my first foil kite. You just don't drop them as much. Yeah, in total lulls, they suck. But when it's marginal, it's amazing how they just refuse to fucking crash compared to an LEI.
+1, totally amazed with foil kites for hidrofoiling.

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:28 pm

I disagree...

Foil kites are way better for low end, meaning more peak power in marginal wind.

But when the wind is really low and gusty/shifting, they tend to collapse - whereas a superlight well balanced no strut kite will hang much better and can not collapse, even if too light wind to ride.

Have seen this difference quite often.

But in more stable wind the foil kites hangs excellent indeed - but not always the case when more shitty lulls :roll:

8) PF

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Oct 13, 2017 9:03 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Oct 13, 2017 8:28 pm
I disagree...

Foil kites are way better for low end, meaning more peak power in marginal wind.

But when the wind is really low and gusty/shifting, they tend to collapse - whereas a superlight well balanced no strut kite will hang much better and can not collapse, even if too light wind to ride.

Have seen this difference quite often.

But in more stable wind the foil kites hangs excellent indeed - but not always the case when more shitty lulls :roll:

8) PF
Ive a different experience, for me its easier to keep the Chrono v2 UL 15m flying then the Voyager v3 12m (which is a pretty good light wind kite), actually in around 5-6 knots i make almost no effort to keep the Chrono flying and i can go in the water with straight onshore wind and swim back with the kite in the zenith to get some room to start, with the Voyager i cannot start in this wind but also it needs to be kept moving around all the time to keep the lines tensioned, otherwise it will drop.

In stronger winds i still prefer to fly a LEI kite, even if a foil kite its much more performing (upwind angle, deepower, lift, hangtime), the LEI its just easier to handle.

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby BraCuru » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:20 pm

abel wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:21 pm
I'm "glad" to see that I'm not alone in the boat (
Abel - I think that I am a World champion in kitedrifting ;)
Seriously we have a competition in drifting.
Usually there is 3 or 4 of us drifting couple of hundred meters off the beach and start to race to the beach.
This sounds crazy but it is fun and it improves the drift technique (A LOT!).
the fastest one can reach 2kts in sub 6kts wind hahaha.

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby edt » Fri Oct 13, 2017 10:49 pm

everyone should buy at least one foil kite if just to understand how to fly it. I know some people swim less the better they get but I swim as much or more because I try harder tricks in lighter wind the better I get at this hydrofoil. in lighter wind it's all about speed and pop because the kite doesn't have any power


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