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How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

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Mossy 757
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby Mossy 757 » Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:37 pm

I think the first question to answer is, are you landing all of your foiling tacks and gybes? If not, the swimming will continue until you figure the other stuff out, or buy a better kite for those conditions.

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby junebug » Thu Oct 12, 2017 9:29 pm

My biggest kite that I use for KBHF is a 12m LF WOW. At 10 knots I almost never have to swim in. At 9 knots I rarely have to swim in. At 8 knots I frequently have to swim in, maybe even more often than not. (I'm speaking about our spring/summer/fall thermal winds, which are relatively steady. Our winter winds are much poorer quality from a lull/gust standpoint.)

At 9 knots, even if I blow a transition (still just gybes and upwind 180s for me; no tacks yet) and crash the kite, which happens maybe once a session in 9 knot winds, I can usually relaunch by sitting on the board, getting the kite to the edge of the wind window, and waiting for a gust to start pumping the center lines to get the kite back in the air. At 8 knots, I'm more likely to crash because more aggressive kiteflying is necessary and I'm less likely to be able to relaunch. I'm not capable of deep water relaunch in 8 knots.

All of the above is a little artificial because even our thermal winds are rarely so steady that it is possible to say wind is definitively "9 knots" or "8 knots" at any given time -- instead it is usually at least a 2 knot range -- but I know from experience that if our local anenometers are reading 9 knots I will be unlikely to have to swim and if they are reading 8 knots I will be likely to have to swim.

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abel
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby abel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:21 pm

nothing2seehere wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 12:14 pm
Almost every single time. :-(
.....
Too many sessions end in an exhausting swim (anything more than 25m for me counts as an exhausting swim for me). I think its just local conditions. We either seem to get enough wind to twin tip (18+knots) or 10-12 with lulls. If I regularly had 10-12 knots I'd probably buy the right tools for the job (foil kite).
:thumb: I'm "glad" to see that I'm not alone in the boat (fools consolation 8) )
My swim ins are at least 200-300 meters (your consolation :D )
I'm still blaming the equipment that doesn't stand 5 sec @ ~4 knots lulls until the next air fart (me thick head but optimistic :-P ).
So I keep testing the light wind limits, instead of mowing sessions with a monster kite and a door.
Its not that I'm so stubborn, its the winds we have on the local beach :-?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:25 pm

It is definitely a question about "wind quality" yes, AND skill :D

For me, when 10 knots I ride with an 8 or 9 m2 normal LEI wavekite, so hardly never drop it.
If I do, I most often have to drift ashore and relaunch (no swimming), as hardly any gusts so no chance of relaunching.

When 7-9 knots, I use a light 1 strut LEI, and here I might have to swim/drift, if there are lulls and I make a mistake - which happens on occasions, rare though.
As only if a mistake, because such LEIs can hang in this wind no problems - in less wind than possible to ride, and you can always loop the kite to keep it flying while you drag ashore, even if it drops to 5-6 knots.
Would estimate I drop it 1 out of 15 sessions (the 6-7 knot sessions), so yes it happens.
I dont ride close to shore (okay, not REALLY close as I usually ride quite close), as sitting on the board with the kite on the water, drifting slowly to shore, is just fine.

In 5-6 knots, max 7, I use an 11 m2 racefoilkite, and sometimes I have to swim, after having packed it, after it goes down.

It is soooo much on the verge to impossible in the lower end of this windrange, that it can easily drop if even a small mistake - or a lull where even tucking the frontlines isnt sufficient, or it might collapse.

Always ride close to shore in this supermarginal wind with foilkites, so only a short swim - and sometimes I can pack it down where I can stand on the bottom, WAY easier of course :naughty:

Quite rare I use the foilkite, 1 out of more than 30 sessions where it is needed, as there is very often at least 7 knots where a LEI is just fine and no risk you end up having to do a packdown :rollgrin:

But WHEN I do, in sub 7 knots, the chance/risk that I get a swim after a packdown, is 1 out of 6 sessions I can see in my log :roll:

In short, when 6-8 knots I drop my LEI 1 out of 15 sessions, when 4-7 knots I drop my foilkite 1 out of 6 sessions.

8) PF

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abel
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby abel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:37 pm

edt wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 3:20 pm
it's not the wind speed, it's how gusty it is. If it goes from 20 mph down to 0 and the kite falls out of the sky and waves eat it, what can you do?
If it's blowing a solid 8 knots, between 7-9 you can keep the kite in the air all day. That said, swimming is good exercise, go for it! I know I test the limits.
In light winds it's how 'lully' it is (in our beach)
As a matter of fact it's is a function having direct ratio to the lull amplitud (lower, worst) and inverse ratio to the lull time (shorter, better).
Aftermath above: Improve HFoilling skills 8)

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abel
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby abel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:43 pm

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 6:14 pm
.....
With "normal" kites, you will swim alot in anything under 10 knots, thats normal.
Thanks!
At least now I know it's normal :D

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abel
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby abel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:52 pm

Mossy 757 wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 7:37 pm
I think the first question to answer is, are you landing all of your foiling tacks and gybes? If not, the swimming will continue until you figure the other stuff out, or buy a better kite for those conditions.
No jibes yet.
And yes, I'm looking for a better kite for those conditions (considering the Ultra but I'm not sure it is such a big difference vs the Solo I have).
Also considered a foil but after all those swim ins now I'm reluctant.

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abel
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby abel » Thu Oct 12, 2017 11:26 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Thu Oct 12, 2017 10:25 pm
It is definitely a question about "wind quality" yes, AND skill :D
...
In short, when 6-8 knots I drop my LEI 1 out of 15 sessions, when 4-7 knots I drop my foilkite 1 out of 6 sessions.

8) PF
Thanks for all the replys.
Now at least I feel better and have a "dropping skill reference":
>5 in 15 sessions - better improve the skill and verify proper equipment (my level :-? )
<3 in 15 sessions - there's hope for improvement
<1 in 10 sessions - you're fine
<1 in 15 sessions - you're skilled
Give or take as per your wish, but at least we have a reference and less frustration excuses :D

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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby dylan* » Fri Oct 13, 2017 1:23 am

8 knots swim in 1 in 2-3 sessions
9 knots swim in 1 in 5 sessions
10 knots rarely swim in (once in a while if there's a lull or something)
11 knots+ almost never, can sometimes relaunch kite
12 knots I can usually relaunch my kite

I drop the kite when I'm gybing and lose line tension for too long and can't get the kite back up. If roll tacks were possible to do I'd probably drop it a lot less.

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edt
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Re: How often do you swim in @ <10knots ?

Postby edt » Fri Oct 13, 2017 2:32 am

It's not about skilled = never swim. more like who wants to push their limits. Some days I don't feel so like swimming so only launch if it's good other days I don't care how low it is or how bad the lulls I'm going for it. so not really about skills but how much you feel like testing yourself. some kiters never swim not becuase they are amazing but because they are simply a bit more cautious


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