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Why not more canards ?

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Thu Jun 07, 2018 3:03 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:33 pm
Just wondering, it seems the Zeeko canards works awesome and everyone is excited about these :D

Curious now, why no more brands offer canards ?

Too early, or some downsides too ?

Sorry, cant help wondering if one or another :-?

8) PF

Would pop this one up again !

Now half a year has gone since this thread ended, and still only Zeeko offer the Spitfire as a Canard (Crazy Foil is not really seen in kitesurfing it seems).

I rode the first one for a couple of months 1½ year ago, liked it but too small for me as a wavefoil.


But now with the XLW wings, what have riders got to say good and bad things ?

Noone got the Spitfire XLW (or the smaller one) here, so can not ask nor try, and would not make sense to try shortly as one need to adapt a bit and use it in different conditions to know its strength and weaknesses.

It is a mindbender that almost noone rides these - but those who do, LOVES it I can read :D

Any new inputs to this paradox ?

Or is it simply "you got something that works, so you dont wanna change your full foil-robe", not knowing what you might be missing that is :naughty:

8) Peter

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby plummet » Thu Jun 07, 2018 6:33 pm

Did I ride a standard spitfire maybe 6 months ago? Took me 10-15mins to re-train myself to be able to ride it. It was a very responsive and lively foil. I can see why it would be fun in small waves. I found it slower, less stable and worse upwind that my foil. Ultimately I preferred my foil over the Spitfire.

Perhaps its too different visually and the market is not ready for canard foils yet? Perhaps the standard spitfire is too responsive and had put some people off?

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby Rojbrown » Fri Jun 08, 2018 4:56 am

There's another thread on the Spitfire I've been posting on. As a newbie to foiling...2nd year, my experience with it has been challenging. Confident on a directional I've been borrowing a SS HG for the last year and am able to foil but not transition. After reading many reviews decided on the Spitfire as I'm more interested in the gliding/carving feel then the need for speed. Granted my time on the water has been limited but it's been learning all over. It takes more speed to foil and feels very unstable when it does. Zeeko and the US rep have been very responsive. I plan to go to the XLW wings when available. Have even toyed with doing the XXLW wings but they require a stronger base plate so more $. I'm not giving up. When I first rode (or got bucked off) the HG I thought "this is impossible". I'm in it till I get it. The bottom line is it take time to learn to foil canard or traditional.

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:34 am

I will be riding the XXLW (60cm mast) on a Naish Hover 155 over the weekend for the first time.

I found the little wings were too much work for me ay 100kg. The XLW were really great for free riding and a little bit too fast for surf riding (IMO), but I am hoping the XXLW will be adequately slow for surf riding.

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby bigtone667 » Fri Jun 08, 2018 5:40 am

I will be riding the XXLW (60cm mast) on a Naish Hover 155 over the weekend for the first time.

I found the little wings were too much work for me ay 100kg. The XLW were really great for free riding and a little bit too fast for surf riding (IMO), but I am hoping the XXLW will be adequately slow for surf riding.

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby indysurfer » Fri Jun 08, 2018 6:20 am

This guy has an interesting canard (can also be set up standard) and light aluminum mast - never tried (still learning on a Hoverglide), but looks like a very cool concept. https://www.foilsurf.net/
Better details on his iKite ad: http://c.ikitesurf.com/classifieds/32347

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:36 am

I think the canard idea is great and certainly works for me. But it did take a while, and then only when I’d stopped using geriatric foils and solely focused on the Spitfire.
To say that just an hour on it is enough to appreciate the true nature of the beast is not doing it justice

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Jun 08, 2018 12:43 pm

3InletsWindsports wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:36 am
I think the canard idea is great and certainly works for me. But it did take a while, and then only when I’d stopped using geriatric foils and solely focused on the Spitfire.
To say that just an hour on it is enough to appreciate the true nature of the beast is not doing it justice

True, I would say you have to use half a year on anything before you can find the true spirit of things, that goes with so many other things too.

And if you change back and fourth, it might take much longer than half a year :roll:

On the other hand, if not finding REALLY good benefits using a canard, one could choose to stick to the classics as you got more wings/masts/brands and options, and dont need so much time to adapt when changing foils and wings, to be able to utilize it max :rollgrin:

8) PF

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby Kamikuza » Fri Jun 08, 2018 3:08 pm

I had a play on one for about a half hour. Probably an unfair test, as I came straight from the 720cm wide SUP foil, but I thought the Spitfire was power-hungry, needed too much speed and was just too twitchy, especially in the pitch axis. I couldn't get my feet fully in the straps though (owner has smaller feet) so I also struggled a bit in the roll axis balance, but that was my fault. I can't remember if he had the XL wings, I'd say "no" if pushed to answer.

Again, the owner loves it and has sold his Green/White. He also rides a 12m when I'm foiling on a 10m so maybe that's his style.

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Re: Why not more canards ?

Postby jakemoore » Fri Jun 08, 2018 8:01 pm

3InletsWindsports wrote:
Fri Jun 08, 2018 11:36 am
geriatric foils and solely focused on the Spitfire.
Geriatric!

I'm riding my geriatric foil 90% of the time. The Levitaz Cruiser is both faster and slower according to Locosys. I can't say I've come to any conclusions about preference.

I was hoping the behavior in ventilations would be more gentile if front stabilizer would simply allow the foil to settle back down. I'm not convinced this is the case.

The Spitfire is definitely more lively in yaw, but I wonder how much of the difference is due to the canard design and how much is because the wings are totally flat without anhedral, winglets, or vertical fin.


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