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Moses 2018

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Moses 2018

Postby Pedro Marcos » Tue May 22, 2018 12:27 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Mon May 21, 2018 9:15 pm
Foxi wrote:
Sun May 20, 2018 11:10 am
I‘m in my second Foilseason now and had two sessions with my new Fluente (590). I understand that 633 provides more lift and stall speed is further reduced so that any manouver attempts could be practised at lower speeds. What I do no not understand so far: isn‘t it a con that kite sizes needed are smaller so that support through tacks is (significantly) lower than in a „regular combo“ ? What does 633 make so special compared to early planning foils like Cabrinha Double Agent or Naish Thrust which are more judged as beginner foils ?


Nobody really answered your question Foxi ?

It should have a thread of its own actually, as it is not "brand" specific :roll:

Anyways, your are somewhat correct, and then again not.

Using a bigger wing, means you can use a smaller kite yes.

Which is a huge advantage in maneuvers when carving and having fun in general, and in waves too, that you can turn a smaller kite much faster and turn in a tighter arc.

But yes, you dont have the same lift as with a bigger kite, for making transitions that is true.

BUT, you can use just as big a kite with a bigger wing, than with a smaller wing - to get the same benefits when practicing switching feet.
In fact, the bigger wing is slower, so even easier with a big kite to avoid getting too powered, as it wont "run away" like a smaller faster wing.

So a win win with the big wings, as you can use your bigger kite if you like, and still have a lot more room for "errors" as it wont stall if you are too slow in a move :naughty:

The downside of the bigger wings IMO, is they get horribly boring pretty fast - there IS a limit where the fun stops, when you dont have the glide and speed and feel of no drag, like the smaller/normal wings.
Some like riding huge wings, some like riding medium/normal wings, and a few like faster and smaller wings - personal liking only.

And yes, the other typically claimed beginner foils are somewhat the same as the 633, or reverse, these bigger wings are all good beginner wings too :D

8) PF
I know that some might disagree, but i find the tack on the 633 to be on a completely different timing then on any other faster wing, so for me its actually harder to tack on the 633. I do have the 633 and i use it when conditions are really bad or i want to train something new (other then tacks), because mainly everything happens slower and with less speed. For me the "must have" wing for 2018, its the race wing, 637, ofc it needs some time on the water to get used to it but its an amazing setup, use it with the 101 mast and you get a more freeride/freestyle feeling, 111 for speed and extra stability.

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Re: Moses 2018

Postby cwood » Tue May 22, 2018 2:18 am

Just ordered the 633 and the 637. I will have 633, 558 (mid) and 637 race. All to be ridden on the 101. Will be interesting to see where I gravitate.

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Re: Moses 2018

Postby Foil » Tue May 22, 2018 7:40 am

cwood wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:18 am
Just ordered the 633 and the 637. I will have 633, 558 (mid) and 637 race. All to be ridden on the 101. Will be interesting to see where I gravitate.
The 633 wave wing is just so enjoyable to use when there are waves of any size, I have a good selection of wings to choose from but because they need different mast positions or different footstrap positions I have avoided using them for the last 4 months.
This will change now I have boards with an adjustable mast track,
A few weeks ago when I loaned my full set up to another guy to use I took his set up out, a Moses T40 with 550 wing set up, after using the 633 for so long I was shocked just how different is was to use, it took 3 attempts to find the speed level needed to fly round on a gybe without touching down, and 2 attempts to set off without doing that silly dolphin impression, that never happens on the 633.
I do enjoy the silky smooth speed of the faster wings, and no doubt these faster wings will get a good work out when out on the big Italian lakes where miles of flat water will demand some serious speed attempts.

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Re: Moses 2018

Postby Foxi » Tue May 22, 2018 8:22 am

Thanks Frank & all for drawing a more detailed picture of 633 and any riding impacts concerned. Once I made it to the water, my lake spots do not allow for an easy exchange of wings, so I have to minimize my equipment to the really sense making stuff. Budget is one side, logistics the other one. Lucky you with huge beachsides !

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Re: Moses 2018

Postby cwood » Tue May 22, 2018 12:32 pm

Foil wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 7:40 am
cwood wrote:
Tue May 22, 2018 2:18 am
Just ordered the 633 and the 637. I will have 633, 558 (mid) and 637 race. All to be ridden on the 101. Will be interesting to see where I gravitate.
The 633 wave wing is just so enjoyable to use when there are waves of any size, I have a good selection of wings to choose from but because they need different mast positions or different footstrap positions I have avoided using them for the last 4 months.
This will change now I have boards with an adjustable mast track,
A few weeks ago when I loaned my full set up to another guy to use I took his set up out, a Moses T40 with 550 wing set up, after using the 633 for so long I was shocked just how different is was to use, it took 3 attempts to find the speed level needed to fly round on a gybe without touching down, and 2 attempts to set off without doing that silly dolphin impression, that never happens on the 633.
I do enjoy the silky smooth speed of the faster wings, and no doubt these faster wings will get a good work out when out on the big Italian lakes where miles of flat water will demand some serious speed attempts.
I hope to have mast track sharpie marks for each combo and so I can leave straps in the same spot and just move the mast quickly for each wing. I hate moving foot straps!

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Re: Moses 2018

Postby BWD » Tue May 22, 2018 1:53 pm

I got meine second hand and I sold it on for someone else to learn on. So, got resold twice
This is the upside: Growing the market without risking the reputations of the high performance niche manufacturers.
Personally I am glad I bought a foil that leaves growing room and more performance options instead , because budget is a consideration. If not, I would have at least 2 good foils already!

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Re: Moses 2018

Postby grigorib » Fri May 25, 2018 12:53 pm

Looking at 590 wing there’s plenty of space to fit another inch of wing area in the back and add nose at front to make an arrowhead looking, thicker lightwind wing for the same fuselage

Is there anyone who can pass this comment to Tony?
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Foxi
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Re: Moses 2018

Postby Foxi » Fri May 25, 2018 1:15 pm

I‘d appreciate a 633 Style Frontwing for the standard fuselage as well, but if you compare Onda Stabilizer to S 330 I‘m afraid we‘d need a new one as well. Only saving remaing the fuselage. Big question if benchmark Onda 633 would be reached though ..

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Re: Moses 2018

Postby TomW » Sat May 26, 2018 4:54 pm

I think moses would have done this if they could without compromising the performance goals. No company wants to increase the parts they have to make, it's a common way a growing company can kill it's self...

grigorib
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Boards: Spleene RIP 37, Flysurfer Flydoor5 XL, Moses 71cm/91cm/42” masts 590/633 wings, Slingshot Dwarfcraft 42", MBS Comp 95x

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Re: Moses 2018

Postby grigorib » Sat May 26, 2018 8:29 pm

Foxi wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 1:15 pm
I‘d appreciate a 633 Style Frontwing for the standard fuselage as well, but if you compare Onda Stabilizer to S 330 I‘m afraid we‘d need a new one as well. Only saving remaing the fuselage. Big question if benchmark Onda 633 would be reached though ..
Possibly. Even 590 can use a large stabilizer than 330 maybe.
No question the 633 will not be matched but it would make travel easier and add to LW somewhere between 590 and 633 wings


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