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Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


Foil
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Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool, Newbrough Anglesey Wales
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosniger for the twintip.
Style: Mad but happy,risky with back up
Gear: Moses T60 Carbon board,91 cm Carbon foil, wing and stabiliser selection, Fone bandits- 7-8-9-12 and 15mtr Breeze, 12 Ozone Reo.
Nobile twin tip,North 2018 click bars
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby Foil » Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:57 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:00 pm
Foil wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:51 pm

Your progression seems sensible to me. You basically rented a cheaper intro set up for learning. Worked out to maybe 10-20pounds per session?

For a new learner, what might be helpful to know -- you said you felt like you were starting over when you went with Moses, it was so different. Do you think that if you'd started right at the beginning with your Moses that it would have made your initial learning more difficult or more frustrating? Or maybe the key question: if you could do it over again, would you have gone with the slingshot flight school baby steps approach, or jumped right into the ferrari for learning?

For me, I jumped from original carafino as low aspect as it gets to a stringy mid-aspect ... and the first few sessions were super difficult, felt like forgot how to foil. But I am confident that knowing the basics first was helpful in advancing. If I ever try high aspect wings, I am sure it will be the same transition.
I believe that if I had bought the Moses from the beginning I would have had a very hard time getting to grips with the foil,
I have witnessed much slower progression than my own, with at least one at our beach giving in as he found it too hard. I do believe that if these people had started on the happy foil school set up they would have had a much easier and faster progression rate.
It would be great if dealers did hire out the school gear with a guaranteed buy back value against more advanced kit.
The Happy Foil is just so stable, and you don't realise this until you jump onto a set up like the Moses and it chucks you off quicker than your first tight rope walking lesson.

Foil
Rare Poster
Posts: 24
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool, Newbrough Anglesey Wales
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosniger for the twintip.
Style: Mad but happy,risky with back up
Gear: Moses T60 Carbon board,91 cm Carbon foil, wing and stabiliser selection, Fone bandits- 7-8-9-12 and 15mtr Breeze, 12 Ozone Reo.
Nobile twin tip,North 2018 click bars
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby Foil » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:13 pm

revhed wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:39 pm
Foil wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 4:51 pm
Remember as a newbie you will hit the bottom a lot
Not if you have even half a brain! :o
Rule number one for KBHF, DO NOT BOTTOM OUT, PERIOD! :nono:
There is no need to ever do this! With the exception of wave foilers taking the risk flying close in, but they should be aware if they are good enough to play there!
RH
Love it
I sail in mainly tidal lagoon areas with little access to deep water, so hitting the bottom is all too common, mostly sand bottom, but mussel beds are bad to hit and can't be seen, 2 of us were well out to sea last week and flying high and fast, I slowed down for a turn and kerpow! Hit a shallow sand bar and cartwheeled off, my mate who was following thought I just crashed out until I stood up and waved for him to avoid, his smile turned to grimace as he braced for impact, but he kept his foil high and avoided the sand bar, he did find it half an hour later though :D :D

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edt
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby edt » Tue Oct 24, 2017 8:40 pm

revhed wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 7:42 pm
edt wrote:
Tue Oct 24, 2017 5:50 pm
I think I've hit bottom a hundred times
Why?
R H
I can't ride with such careful caution. Gotta push the limits on what is possible and go for the shallows. I also go swimming with my foil all the time because I will go lower than it's actually possible to ride. Swimming, hitting the bottom, snapping lines that's what I do. I'm not a role model

stevez
Medium Poster
Posts: 121
Joined: Wed Jan 13, 2016 11:17 am
Kiting since: 2008
Gear: Moses hydrofoil
BRM cloud
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Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby stevez » Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:33 am

+1 for a cheaper robust aluminium setup to start.
Firstly you may not not necessarily know what your style is, whether it is freeride or speed, high or low power etc.
In any case you should learn on a fairly low to medium aspect foil with a gentle stall.
When learning you are going to bottom out for sure, no matter what you try, and you'd rather do that on a solid G10 wing with a metal fuselage than damage a fragile carbon setup. Even for me after 2 years it's an ongoing reality as I my main spot empties out at low tide, so I'm always pushing the limit of shallowness.
There are plenty of great options for under $1000k excl board. If you're in the US the stringyfoil is a great such option, and I got one of those on the water with a zeeko mast for $800 US. You won't outgrow a foil like that in a hurry.
Once you've been riding for 6 months to a year, you'll be in a better position to know what your next dream foil is, and there will be even better and probably cheaper options than are available now. Save yourself buying expensive gear that's not suitable.
Even when you upgrade, you may still keep the old foil for those days where you're pushing your luck with the tide or you're foiling somewhere unfamiliar and you're not totally sure where the obstacles are, or as general backup. And if you do sell it, as long as it's in still in good condition, you'll get most of your money back.

revhed
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Local Beach: france
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Location: France

Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby revhed » Wed Oct 25, 2017 12:29 pm

stevez wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 11:33 am
When learning you are going to bottom out for sure, no matter what you try, and you'd rather do that on a solid G10 wing with a metal fuselage than damage a fragile carbon setup. Even for me after 2 years it's an ongoing reality as I my main spot empties out at low tide, so I'm always pushing the limit of shallowness.
No you NEVER need to bottom out, even learning, UNLESS in an etang (pond, lake where the water is shallow in spots, and even then....
Tide goes out, simple, foiler goes out even further.
NEVER if at all possible water start if you can touch the bottom and use your head to note where this is so when finished will also NOT bottom out!
I know for sure that EVERY bottom out puts stress on your set up mostly STRUT to fuse AND STRUT to board connections, easy to understand
by thinking just a little about this, NOT to mention stress on your not replaceable body parts.
And a while later you will wonder why there is play at your connections, bent bolts but mostly cumulative UNSEEN damage that may lead to LOOSING
your T bar to never be found again, believe me have seen this more than once.
At best sure hope the guys CHOOSING to risk bottoming out do so STRAPLESS for obvious reasons.....
R H

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edt
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Joined: Fri Jul 16, 2010 6:27 am
Kiting since: 2010
Local Beach: ford lake Michigan
Gear: slingshot liquid force wainman pansh naish north cwb burton

Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby edt » Wed Oct 25, 2017 1:17 pm

I think I have loosened connections in my knees and definitely missing a nut in my head

Archer77
Medium Poster
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:42 pm
Kiting since: 2016
Local Beach: Porto Pollo, Sardegna
Style: freeride
Gear: Ozone Zephyr v5 17m
Ozone Catalyst v1 12m, 9m
Shinn Bronq 135/41
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby Archer77 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:54 pm

THANK YOU ALL GUYS!

I'm making a list of the hydrofoil board I have found on your suggestions:

Basic (perfect to learn, less to progress):
Slingshot Hover Glide NF2 with Dwarfcraft board (plus 3 mast set to make things even easier)
Shinn Jackson and model P foil my add, anyone tryed this?

Intermediate price:
Zeeko Alloy HF

High end price:
Ketos so easy
Moses Fluente Basic with 548 + 330 wings
Levitaz Cruizer

What about MHP Lift? I have read very good things about it!

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jeromeL
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Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Longisland NY
Style: freestyle
Gear: Fone Bandit 2014 12m^2, 2015 9, 2015 7, 2015 14
Best GP 2015 9m
Star Sirius V2 12m
Nobile Fity/50 138cm
Naish Apex bindings.
Zeeko Green and White + Shinn El Stubbo
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Location: Longisland, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby jeromeL » Wed Oct 25, 2017 5:21 pm

Archer77 wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 3:54 pm
THANK YOU ALL GUYS!

I'm making a list of the hydrofoil board I have found on your suggestions:

Basic (perfect to learn, less to progress):
Slingshot Hover Glide NF2 with Dwarfcraft board (plus 3 mast set to make things even easier)
Shinn Jackson and model P foil my add, anyone tryed this?

Intermediate price:
Zeeko Alloy HF

High end price:
Ketos so easy
Moses Fluente Basic with 548 + 330 wings
Levitaz Cruizer

What about MHP Lift? I have read very good things about it!
I have heard great thing about Lift, I think new model had a wing embedded in mast which has pros and cons, also their factory in PR had issues and now with hurricane not sure what the latest status is.

bigtone667
Frequent Poster
Posts: 289
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:24 am
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Umina Beach
Favorite Beaches: Umina Beach, Birdies Beach, Lake Munmorah, Canton, Le Morne
Style: surf, foiling, lawn mowing
Gear: BRM Cloud C2's, D's

Slingshot Skim Board, North Surfboards, BRM Paipo, Shinn Shinnster/Jackson, Firewire Boards, CrazyFly Doors, Zeeko Carver/Spitfire Foils, Naish Hover 155, Naish Thrust Surf Foil, Konrad Foil
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Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby bigtone667 » Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:37 pm

Foreword: I am interested in freeride and wave/swell riding. So this has determined my general purchases. I am after early plane, good glide, tight turning, not too fast, super low stall speed. This generally puts me in the 700cm2+ , low aspect wing.

I started on the original fish foil and full mast. Struggled.... bought the half mast and sorted out the "muscle memory" within a few weeks and went back to the full mast. Sold the full setup. It was a rugged unit and I abused the sand bars and weed beds.

I then purchased the super heavy Slingshot with just the long mast. It was better than the fish foil and tough as nails. Sold the full setup. It is heavy!!! But you will not be able break it.

I then purchased a zeeko blue/white and the carver wing as well. Best of the lot and in hindsight, wished I started with the blue/white/carver as my first foil (not sure it existed when I got the fish foil).

I also invested in the Zeeko Spitfire and XLW wings. I would have been happy to learn on this beast as well ( but only with XLW wings)

Archer77
Medium Poster
Posts: 55
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 1:42 pm
Kiting since: 2016
Local Beach: Porto Pollo, Sardegna
Style: freeride
Gear: Ozone Zephyr v5 17m
Ozone Catalyst v1 12m, 9m
Shinn Bronq 135/41
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Hydrofoil board for beginner, cheaper VS expensive

Postby Archer77 » Thu Oct 26, 2017 8:46 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Wed Oct 25, 2017 9:37 pm
...

I then purchased a zeeko blue/white and the carver wing as well. Best of the lot and in hindsight, wished I started with the blue/white/carver as my first foil (not sure it existed when I got the fish foil).

I also invested in the Zeeko Spitfire and XLW wings. I would have been happy to learn on this beast as well ( but only with XLW wings)
thank you bigtone! I didn't imagine that existed something like that, is now at the top of my possible choose!

https://vimeo.com/224503102

so the Spitfire with XLW is totally suitable for learn?
have any drawback compared with classic wings?


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