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G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

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Foil
Rare Poster
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool, Newbrough Anglesey Wales
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosniger for the twintip.
Style: Wannabe fast foiler.
Gear: Moses T60 Carbon board,91cm and 101cm Carbon foils.
325/330 Stabs. Both fuses.
Wings- 590/550/548,
Fone bandits- 7-8-9-12 and 15mtr Breeze, 12 Ozone Reo.
Nobile twin tip,North 2018 click bars
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby Foil » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:36 am

Moses do do a solid carbon wing and stabiliser, but it's expensive and only made for racing, so the low end must be poor along with user friendliness, and carbon,as all us x windsurfers know scratches up and chips as soon as you look at it.
The problem many of us on the west coast of northern Wales and the north west of England is the water is shallow for quite a way out, and this catches you out as the tide recedes, and twice up to now my foil has blown over as I have been putting it together or about to break it down, and the resulting fall of the wing onto the car park has badly damaged the wing tip.
This would not happen to a G10 wing, (the damage I mean)
Up to date I have 4 Moses front wings, only one was undamaged, and that I used on Monday once I realised what was wrong with my other wings. But 3 damaged wings in 6 months is worrying and expensive,

TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand
Gear: Homemade 4-1
North Mono 7 & 12
RRD Obsession 9
Core XR3 12m
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby TomW » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:50 pm

I'll admit I'm a Moses fan and happy so far with my 2016 Fluente. The mast is spotless after 50 hrs and 3 international flights/trips.
The front wings are "fragile", but I can't compare. If the board is top down in the parking lot and it tips over and the wing hits the asphalt, it's going to chip off. I did that in a gravel lot and lost a 5x10mm bit from the tip. I just filled it with epoxy. And sprayed some black paint on it.

Then I've bounced off a reef, got caught in some rocks offshore, dragged over some unexpected rocks and scraped on the gravel in a river mouth. This has scratched, dinged or cracked small portions of the leading edge. I've patched them all and painted over it. It looks fine and works the same as ever. I suppose that it could be tougher, but one the positive it's really light.

Foil
Rare Poster
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool, Newbrough Anglesey Wales
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosniger for the twintip.
Style: Wannabe fast foiler.
Gear: Moses T60 Carbon board,91cm and 101cm Carbon foils.
325/330 Stabs. Both fuses.
Wings- 590/550/548,
Fone bandits- 7-8-9-12 and 15mtr Breeze, 12 Ozone Reo.
Nobile twin tip,North 2018 click bars
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby Foil » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:10 pm

TomW wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:50 pm
I'll admit I'm a Moses fan and happy so far with my 2016 Fluente. The mast is spotless after 50 hrs and 3 international flights/trips.
The front wings are "fragile", but I can't compare. If the board is top down in the parking lot and it tips over and the wing hits the asphalt, it's going to chip off. I did that in a gravel lot and lost a 5x10mm bit from the tip. I just filled it with epoxy. And sprayed some black paint on it.

Then I've bounced off a reef, got caught in some rocks offshore, dragged over some unexpected rocks and scraped on the gravel in a river mouth. This has scratched, dinged or cracked small portions of the leading edge. I've patched them all and painted over it. It looks fine and works the same as ever. I suppose that it could be tougher, but one the positive it's really light.
I am a Moses fan as well, I keep a full set of gear over at Flag beach,Fuerteventura, and a set over here, both exactly the same kit, and love the ride, the looks, and the quality.and when I find a way of keeping a wing in good condition and preferably made from G10 I will be a happy chappy.
I really bashed my front and rear wing at Fuerteventura when there a few weeks ago,
I asked Gunner who owns the shop "The Boardroom"over there if he had any spares but he was out of stock and waiting for the new 2018 Moses stock, fortunately the wind blew up really strong with onshore winds that forced me onto my Twin Tip for the rest of the week.

TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand
Gear: Homemade 4-1
North Mono 7 & 12
RRD Obsession 9
Core XR3 12m
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby TomW » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:52 pm

Those rocks at flag beach are brutal, especially at low tide.

Foil
Rare Poster
Posts: 48
Joined: Mon Oct 23, 2017 7:44 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Newbrighton near Liverpool, Newbrough Anglesey Wales
Favorite Beaches: Flag beach for the Foil, Rhosniger for the twintip.
Style: Wannabe fast foiler.
Gear: Moses T60 Carbon board,91cm and 101cm Carbon foils.
325/330 Stabs. Both fuses.
Wings- 590/550/548,
Fone bandits- 7-8-9-12 and 15mtr Breeze, 12 Ozone Reo.
Nobile twin tip,North 2018 click bars
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby Foil » Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:00 pm

Ok, so the G10 wing (medium) arrived today from Gong, 3 days from France to the UK with a bucket full of emails to keep me informed of where and why.
First impression was good, slightly bigger(570mm) than the Moses (at 548mm)but slightly narrower, so should have the same lift but more stability, (I made that bit up)
Build quality is simply superb.
So off to my workshop(garage) to see if I can get it to fit my standard 2017 Moses Fuselage.
Good news is the wing mods are simply 1 extra hole,and I needed to elongate the 2nd hole by 3mm to fit,
however the Moses fuse had to be modified :!: so it's a good job I have 2, it took me all of 20 minutes to sort the profile with an angle grinder, then drill the extra hole and elongate the other, this was accomplished with my new Dremel, so now it's good to go, looks great and will be tested tomorrow.
The weight is 674g as against the Moses 548 wing at 340g.
So, has it been worth the effort and cost?
Well if it sails as good as the Moses then it has to be a yes from me, the G10 material was so tough to work, I used a tungsten drill to get a hole drilled and the dremel stone attachment to countersink the hole, I burnt out a dremel tool to elongate one of the holes :o
that G10 is one hell of a tough material, and will burn out most tools.
Even my Wife Pauline who was watching me work on the wing said if I dropped that on the car park it would take a chunk out out of the car park, not the wing.
Something I am well aware using the stuff over many long years.

Image

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Last edited by Foil on Sat Nov 25, 2017 7:19 am, edited 9 times in total.

jaros
Frequent Poster
Posts: 399
Joined: Sun Dec 15, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Slovenia

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby jaros » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:14 pm

Great job!

TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1890
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand
Gear: Homemade 4-1
North Mono 7 & 12
RRD Obsession 9
Core XR3 12m
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby TomW » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:34 pm

It seems the only thing that can go wrong is the angle of attack is not right. Really interested to hear about your ride

OzBungy
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1955
Joined: Fri Oct 21, 2005 11:35 am

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby OzBungy » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:34 pm

If I understand correctly the problem you were trying to solve is that you cold not sand the carbon wings smooth enough. Why not spray paint them and sand the paint?

User avatar
NYKiter
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1683
Joined: Fri Mar 22, 2013 9:17 pm
Kiting since: 2010
Style: Wave
Gear: .

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby NYKiter » Fri Nov 24, 2017 11:02 pm

G10 is extremely easy to work with. If you have a drill press...and a band saw....its simple. A hand grinder is handy as well. I use a stand up pipe cutter band saw...easy as cake...cuts slow and keeps the particles size large.

cwood
Medium Poster
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Cherry Beach, Toronto
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: G10 wing replacement for fragile carbon

Postby cwood » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:33 am

I have generally beat he hell out of the tips of my Moses wings. I have two and swap them in and out to repair while using the other. We kite in all manner of rocky locations and I have never had one that didn't fly almost as normal even in dinged state so I'm confused by the extreme performance difference you report. I fix them mainly to feel better vs because they are not behaving.

Needed:

West System Six10 thickened epoxy
Small amount of carbon fiber cloth
Scissors
Popsicle sticks
Paper cups
Optional Dremel with grinding drum
Wet sand paper. 320, 400, 600, 800, 1500
Glazing compound
Duct tape
Sanding block

How:

Put duct tape on one side of wing tip as platform to put epoxy into place
Cut small bits of carbon fiber to create carbon fuzz
Mix small amount of epoxy and stir the carbon into it well
Should look black
Put carbon mix onto wing tip and tape backer to approximate shape of tip
Let harden over night
Remove tape
Grind back carbon to close to desired shape
Finish wet sand with 320 to get final shape, then with finer and finer grits
Fill any pin holes with glaze
Sand again with 1500
Done

Pics

https://photos.app.goo.gl/vH73ezmh9p2GybWx1


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