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Going even bigger foil kite, what size?

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Going even bigger foil kite, what size?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Tue Nov 21, 2017 11:11 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:25 pm
joriws wrote:
Tue Nov 21, 2017 8:21 pm
Everytime I and my friends have tried back to back same model foil kites we have chosen 15m over 18m for free riding / twin tip (speed3, speed4, sonic1 and sonic2). 15 being more agile is easier to fly on ultra low wind practically giving same low end for 70-110kg riders.

Agree 100 % with this :thumb:

BUT, this is because I have it the same way, loving freeride fun and agility more than anything else....

I think that you Pedro, just a guess on your "character" from your postings, should choose the 19 m2, as you like to go fast when too light for "freestyle" as such.
And save the freestyle/moves fun for a bit more wind.

In short: The bigger will have a marginally better marginal end, indeed, so choose the 19 as this is what you seek now it seems Pedro :rollgrin:

For some of us, we will drop the fraction of a knot better lowend (and a LOT less up/downwind performance of course) to get more agility instead :naughty:

I would not be in doubt you should go big with your talent and power, and you seek the lowest end possible I think :D

8) Peter
Yes when its light and i have to use a big kite i cannot do much freestyle anymore, so my goal in those conditions its to go fast and powered, maybe with more hours on the water i will manage to do some freestyle even with the big kite, but at the moment ill be happy if i can manage the jibes and tacks in the marginal winds, which are quite HARD already.

All of this because i tested an R1V2 and i immediately realized that the kite was much more performing then my 15m Chrono v2 UL, by more performing i mean i can handle more wind in the R1V2, get more speed, start earlier due to peak power, get better angles (both upwind AND DOWNWIND) while also being more confortable, the only downsize really is that it doesnt allow wrong rider inputs in marginal winds, where the Chrono its hard to drop in the water even if you mess it up (i still have zero swims on it). My only problem with the big kites its the very slow turning, that sometimes its soo slow that its just annoying, so ill gladly sacrifice a 1/2 knot if i can get a slightly faster turning 17m.

Regarding the 15m i already test one and i felt that i could have more power then that, the R1V2 15m handles much more wind then the Chrono V2 UL 15m.

Im really loving this foil kites in light winds, very funny because i was tottaly against them before the "hidrofoil" addiction. When its over 12knots i immediately to go my LEI OR Flite 8m where i can be much more agile and try different things, there is also a challenge on being underpowered on the hidrofoil, because some things are just easier if you are powered up. Maybe in the future ill also have a foil kite for over 12 knots!? Who knows!

Btw, talent is overrated, all we need its TIME on the water :)

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Re: Going even bigger foil kite, what size?

Postby fogmeister » Wed Nov 22, 2017 2:02 am

we have done the 15 vs 18 and 19 test many times..........hands down the 15 eventually loses to the 18 and 19......when you can just stand on the foil and ride almost upright because the 15 doesnt have enough pull.......you will still be racing on the 18 , 19 and leaning.........so yes 19 r1v2

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Re: Going even bigger foil kite, what size?

Postby sedluk » Wed Nov 22, 2017 6:55 am

I have seen lots of threads where people are choosing between kites. I have the 15m, 18m and 21m Sonic Race kites. I prefer the 15m when I have enough wind, then I prefer the 18m when the 15m is a struggle and then go with the 21m when the 18m is a struggle.

The 15m is more versatile and more fun, the 18m has a smaller window of preferable winds and the 21m has an even smaller preferable wind window. The problem is, I find myself in each wind situation and glad I have the kite when I want it.

I understand that not everyone wants every kite size, or more accurately, they can't justify every kite size. It is more of a situation of knowing how often you are dealing with different wind situations.

I think that a 19m would be a nice kite size for you. You know what you are getting your self into.

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Re: Going even bigger foil kite, what size?

Postby joriws » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:47 am

With twintip nobody of us (friends over 14y kiting experience incl. foil kites >10y and me with 8 years starting my hobby with 19m foil kite and quickly moving to 21m foil kite) could prove that if we cannot go with 15 we still can go with 18. Main kite lift comes from flying speed on same kite airfoil profile (in simplified form). If you can accelerate kite faster (lower inertia) to fast flying speed and steer it better (losing less speed on turns) to keep it on reduced wind window due to low wind (zenith maybe at 70 degrees) and kite is lighter you gain the benefits. Which makes 15 to actually perform very close to 18. It is much cheaper to have 4-6m extensions to lines than another kite to increase power impulse and flying speed.

And there is my and my friend's experience back to back that with enough kiting skill with 15 you can do the same low wind performance as with same skill and 18. Because on low wind kite's agility allows you to better steer kite at power zone, easier to keep flying speed on wide forward flying arcs bar on the sweet spot. Biggest benefits has been migrating from Speed3 to Speed4 and then to Sonics all in 15m. Sonic1 to Sonic2 is already hard to tell about twintip performance difference but I migrated for increased stability, not for performance. And we fly&ride our 15m foil kites winter starting from 1-2m/s (when Ozone Frenzy cannot fly). And on summer a little bit more wind (~4m/s) but when 17m Turbines cannot properly fly or 19m Core cannot perform.

My guesstimate would be that R1v2 15m you'll most probably have the same performance upgrade from Chrono2 UL 15m compared upgrade to R1v2 18m. But it is more a guess on my side as Ozone is poorly represented at my area (no easy demoes) and I've only ridden Chrono v1 18 and not back-to-back on Ozone brand. But if we are talking racing scene with short lines then the answer is different when you have a lot of apparent wind speed due to fast hydrofoil and you need to maximize angles&speed (VMG). That's why I initially highlighted twintip (both normal and door) and freeride style.

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: Going even bigger foil kite, what size?

Postby Pedro Marcos » Wed Nov 22, 2017 10:52 am

joriws wrote:
Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:47 am
With twintip nobody of us (friends over 14y kiting experience incl. foil kites >10y and me with 8 years starting my hobby with 19m foil kite and quickly moving to 21m foil kite) could prove that if we cannot go with 15 we still can go with 18. Main kite lift comes from flying speed on same kite airfoil profile (in simplified form). If you can accelerate kite faster (lower inertia) to fast flying speed and steer it better (losing less speed on turns) to keep it on reduced wind window due to low wind (zenith maybe at 70 degrees) and kite is lighter you gain the benefits. Which makes 15 to actually perform very close to 18. It is much cheaper to have 4-6m extensions to lines than another kite to increase power impulse and flying speed.

And there is my and my friend's experience back to back that with enough kiting skill with 15 you can do the same low wind performance as with same skill and 18. Because on low wind kite's agility allows you to better steer kite at power zone, easier to keep flying speed on wide forward flying arcs bar on the sweet spot. Biggest benefits has been migrating from Speed3 to Speed4 and then to Sonics all in 15m. Sonic1 to Sonic2 is already hard to tell about twintip performance difference but I migrated for increased stability, not for performance. And we fly&ride our 15m foil kites winter starting from 1-2m/s (when Ozone Frenzy cannot fly). And on summer a little bit more wind (~4m/s) but when 17m Turbines cannot properly fly or 19m Core cannot perform.

My guesstimate would be that R1v2 15m you'll most probably have the same performance upgrade from Chrono2 UL 15m compared upgrade to R1v2 18m. But it is more a guess on my side as Ozone is poorly represented at my area (no easy demoes) and I've only ridden Chrono v1 18 and not back-to-back on Ozone brand. But if we are talking racing scene with short lines then the answer is different when you have a lot of apparent wind speed due to fast hydrofoil and you need to maximize angles&speed (VMG). That's why I initially highlighted twintip (both normal and door) and freeride style.
Yes with a Twintip its a tottaly different story, the hidrofoil is all about enough peak power to get you up, and to get that in marginal winds there is not way around kite surface area, if you are already using an high AR racing kite.

The twintip you will need to keep moving the kite in those winds, which will make the bigger sizes very annoying to use, with the hidrofoil once you get up on the foil you can park the kite and will only need to move again when changing direction.


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