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wings for using smallest kite possible

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slowboat
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wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby slowboat » Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:31 am

I wanted opinions on the type of foil wings that would allow use of smallest kite for the given wind conditions. Would it be a low aspect, large beginner wing, or a very large surf foil, or a medium aspect free ride wing, or something else? It seems you want early takeoff but also good glide characteristics to keep speed up to generate apparent wind. Does weight of foil matter much in this regard? Specific wing recommendations appreciated. I don't want to consider race wings.

Thanks

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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby plummet » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:12 pm

I'm thinking a freaken big sup foil. Something designed for foil at real low speeds.
But also you would need a real high volume board. The most difficult part when underpowered is the water start. A small pocket board takes more power to drag out of the water. Its usually the board limitation in ultra- underpowered situations to be able to water start.

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Bille
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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby Bille » Sat Nov 25, 2017 6:43 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 1:31 am
I wanted opinions on the type of foil wings that would allow use of smallest kite for the given wind conditions.
...

Thanks
Did you see this Thread on the builders forum ?

viewtopic.php?f=199&t=2397730

Bille

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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby bigtone667 » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:15 pm

Naish Thrust Surf Wing.... the 1237cm2 one. I kited 36km yesterday on a 10.4 Cloud between 1pm and 3.30pm.
Screenshot_20171125-171317.png

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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby opie » Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:26 pm

In my experience the Takuma sup foil (around 1500 cm squared) needs more kite because it is so inefficient. If I am underpowered I do best on my Ketos FR2 xl wing, which is 880 cm but a much thinner more efficient design.

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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby slowboat » Sat Nov 25, 2017 10:27 pm

opie wrote:
Sat Nov 25, 2017 8:26 pm
In my experience the Takuma sup foil (around 1500 cm squared) needs more kite because it is so inefficient. If I am underpowered I do best on my Ketos FR2 xl wing, which is 880 cm but a much thinner more efficient design.

I was considering a surf foil but I also think they have increased inefficiency due to size.

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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby gbrungra » Sun Nov 26, 2017 2:55 am

Wing size vs efficincy is one tradeoff.

Another is board floatation. A thick, floaty board is nice for transitions, and for that second loop before getting foiling (first loop is to get you up on the board). But, in really marginal conditions it's nice to have a board that sinks deep in the water so the kite has more resistance (because you and the Baird don't drift as easily), especially for deep water relaunch...

But back to the foil, if waterstart is our limiting factor, then you go with the wing that foils at the lowest speed (and is most easily "pumped" up onto foil), so probably a SUP wing.

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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:43 am

I think:

As the question is not "how low can you go", but what will make you able to ride with the smallest kite possible in given conditions - then no doubt, a huge wing, as high AR as possible, very cambered - combined with a huge floaty board, will definitelyl make you go the earliest with the smallest kite, IMO always.
A huge not high AR wing will make you start almost as early, you will hardly be able to notice any difference - and as this is what is offered (huge high AR wings dont exist, even the Alpine 952 cm2 high AR wing is not "huge", and the only one I've seen of this type).

If we are talking the really big and spikey efficient foilkites, then it is slightly different IMO, as here the most efficient wings that are faster, might be better - as these kites generate a lot more power when going fast, and you can powerspike and pump to get up foiling, thus eventually be able to ride in lower wind. For these kites when marginal, the Alpine wing t.ex would be spot on I would say.
This effect with apparent wind and speed needed does not really work the same (a bit but not nearly the same) for smaller LEI kites, so here pure size of the wing (overall lift at least) even when slow, are better.

Regarding board size, I dont see there is an actual tradeoff, as it takes a huge amount of extra power to foil, when your board is under water - not just a tad more no, but a LOT more, a couple of kitesizes more is needed.
So even if you are able to stand up on your small board, board a half meter under water or more, you will not be able to foil from there...
You will be able to get the board up to the surface for a while yes, but from there it will be an anchor so to speak.
Nor is it easier to get ashore standing this way in the surface on a small board - it will be way faster/safer/more relaxing to put your arm around your board and loop yourself into shore, 2 times one way, and then 2 times the other way on and on and on with one hand changing side on the bar :D

It seems some disagree about the board size effect or have otherexperiences; I am not in doubt though, the bigger the better regarding board and small kite.

In short: Wings, the bigger and more camber, the better no matter what AR for the smallest kite possible (of the offered ones), and with a spikey big foilkite, a bigger but not too big high AR faster wing is the best.

My view at least :D

8) PF

plummet
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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby plummet » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:32 am

The question is why do you want the smallest kite possible? what is the end game. Just shits and giggles? or is there a purpose? riding waves perhaps?
A set for ultra small kite might not be the ideal set up for standard riding. The other foiler at my local was kiting a sup foil the other day. That started early and went real slow! The wing thickness was about 30mm!! it was a monster.
But I wondered if would be any good for doing anything other than just cruising real slow.

Regards

David

slowboat
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Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby slowboat » Sun Nov 26, 2017 12:14 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:43 am
I think:

.... a huge wing, as high AR as possible, very cambered -


8) PF
What do you think of this wing?
http://liquidforcekites.com/product/foi ... bon-wings/


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