Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

wings for using smallest kite possible

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


bigtone667
Frequent Poster
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:24 am
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Umina Beach
Favorite Beaches: Umina Beach, Birdies Beach, Lake Munmorah, Canton, Le Morne
Style: surf, foiling, lawn mowing
Gear: BRM Cloud C2's, D's

Slingshot Skim Board, North Surfboards, BRM Paipo, Shinn Shinnster/Jackson, Firewire Boards, CrazyFly Doors, Zeeko Carver/Spitfire Foils, Naish Hover 155, Naish Thrust Surf Foil, Konrad Foil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby bigtone667 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:08 am

bragnouff wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 12:05 am
From my short (10 minutes) experience with kiting on a SUP foil, it's very appropriate to tiny kites in decent winds, not so sure in marginal winds. The reality of usability of surf foils in light winds is quite constrained by the fact that you need to keep that kite in the air at all times, which greatly limits what you can do in terms of carving and angles of ride.
I am probably up to 250-300km worth of travel on a SUP foil now in wind ranges from 7 to 15 knots. I am massive fan of my Zeeko's, but I won't even bother using Zeeko Carver or Spitfire/XLW anymore in sub ten knots.

I am using a smaller kite generally and/or kiting on lower wind days with the SUP foil. It has been quite a revelation for me that something so big and so slow has such awesome lift and glide. I have no issues turning and carving in sub 10 knots, although I do a lot of downloops for gybes.

User avatar
bragnouff
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 592
Joined: Tue May 14, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 99
Local Beach: New Brighton
Gear: Alkita boards
Zeeko foil
GK Trix
Enduro9
Brand Affiliation: GK enthusiast
Location: Te Wai Pounamu
Contact:

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby bragnouff » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:13 am

bigtone667 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:08 am
I have no issues turning and carving in sub 10 knots, although I do a lot of downloops for gybes.
Maybe your kites are more suited to those lightwind conditions. My biggest is a 12m Enduro, which I like for a bit of everything, but I find it lacks a bit of response when carving aggressively downwind in its lowest range, which is completely expected. A couple more knots and it follows nicely, is more responsive in the turns, and this lets you carve that swell the way you want. Being forced to loop the kite takes a bit of the spontaneity out of your turns, and anyway it's not that fast and snappy to complete a turn and reengage before you can link another one. Carving in these conditions feels to me a bit forced and sluggish, and I tend to keep that for windier days, and instead just enjoy long smooth and reasonably fast runs in light winds, whilst still looping the kite whenever required in transitions. Personal choice maybe.

bigtone667
Frequent Poster
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:24 am
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Umina Beach
Favorite Beaches: Umina Beach, Birdies Beach, Lake Munmorah, Canton, Le Morne
Style: surf, foiling, lawn mowing
Gear: BRM Cloud C2's, D's

Slingshot Skim Board, North Surfboards, BRM Paipo, Shinn Shinnster/Jackson, Firewire Boards, CrazyFly Doors, Zeeko Carver/Spitfire Foils, Naish Hover 155, Naish Thrust Surf Foil, Konrad Foil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby bigtone667 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:54 am

:D
Last edited by bigtone667 on Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

bigtone667
Frequent Poster
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Jul 20, 2015 7:24 am
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Umina Beach
Favorite Beaches: Umina Beach, Birdies Beach, Lake Munmorah, Canton, Le Morne
Style: surf, foiling, lawn mowing
Gear: BRM Cloud C2's, D's

Slingshot Skim Board, North Surfboards, BRM Paipo, Shinn Shinnster/Jackson, Firewire Boards, CrazyFly Doors, Zeeko Carver/Spitfire Foils, Naish Hover 155, Naish Thrust Surf Foil, Konrad Foil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby bigtone667 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 10:55 am

bragnouff wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:13 am
bigtone667 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:08 am
I have no issues turning and carving in sub 10 knots, although I do a lot of downloops for gybes.
Maybe your kites are more suited to those lightwind conditions. My biggest is a 12m Enduro, which I like for a bit of everything, but I find it lacks a bit of response when carving aggressively downwind in its lowest range, which is completely expected. A couple more knots and it follows nicely, is more responsive in the turns, and this lets you carve that swell the way you want. Being forced to loop the kite takes a bit of the spontaneity out of your turns, and anyway it's not that fast and snappy to complete a turn and reengage before you can link another one. Carving in these conditions feels to me a bit forced and sluggish, and I tend to keep that for windier days, and instead just enjoy long smooth and reasonably fast runs in light winds, whilst still looping the kite whenever required in transitions. Personal choice maybe.
That is a very valid point. I was carving around in about 8-10 knots yesterday and constantly losing line tension, but because I was flying a strutless with quite decent drift I was doing fine.

Could not have done it with a 3 strut kite.

User avatar
gmb13
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
Kiting since: 1999
Local Beach: Flag Beach, Fuerteventura
Style: Everything
Gear: Ozone, Axis, Moses, Zeeko, Firewire, SBS
Brand Affiliation: Foiling Basics, The Boardroom Fuerteventura, Ozone, Axiskiteboarding,Schwerelosigkite, Triggernaut,
Location: Fuerteventura
Contact:

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby gmb13 » Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:00 pm

TomW wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:27 pm
So Gunnar, if I'm already an "intermediate ", foiling around and managing most of my gybes on one side, toeside to heelside turns going better, going into switching feet in air learning phase.

I'm also interested in this approach to use small kite and gave fun.

I'm looking at the new Moses 590 front wing for my existing 2016 Fluente ( I'm riding 550-330 wings now). It looks a long way from a Takuma type wing. Probably a totally different animal.

Then there's the moses Onda surf/sup, which requires a new stabilizer, fuselage, wing. Assuming it goes onto a Fluente mast, it's 880 euros for that set up.

Or just get an entire other foil, like a Gong, LF or Takuma... More money and gear...trying to avoid.
It really depends on what you really want. Ultimate low end, or a bit more speed? If you are ok with lower speeds, go with a new foil with a big surf wing. If you want more speed and can sacrifice the low end, the 590 will be ok.

--
Gunnar

cwood
Medium Poster
Posts: 151
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Cherry Beach, Toronto
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby cwood » Tue Nov 28, 2017 3:47 pm

windmaker wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 10:29 am
My mistake! So in brief with what is available on the market these days, favour total surface area at the highest AR possible (probably a windfoil wing).
Check out the Alpine ULW......Yuge!

TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1889
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand
Gear: Homemade 4-1
North Mono 7 & 12
RRD Obsession 9
Core XR3 12m
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby TomW » Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:52 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:00 pm
TomW wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:27 pm
So Gunnar, if I'm already an "intermediate ", foiling around and managing most of my gybes on one side, toeside to heelside turns going better, going into switching feet in air learning phase.

I'm also interested in this approach to use small kite and gave fun.

I'm looking at the new Moses 590 front wing for my existing 2016 Fluente ( I'm riding 550-330 wings now). It looks a long way from a Takuma type wing. Probably a totally different animal.

Then there's the moses Onda surf/sup, which requires a new stabilizer, fuselage, wing. Assuming it goes onto a Fluente mast, it's 880 euros for that set up.

Or just get an entire other foil, like a Gong, LF or Takuma... More money and gear...trying to avoid.
It really depends on what you really want. Ultimate low end, or a bit more speed? If you are ok with lower speeds, go with a new foil with a big surf wing. If you want more speed and can sacrifice the low end, the 590 will be ok.

--
Gunnar
Thanks Gunnar. I'll keep my moses 550/330 wings and that's good for moderate speeds and freestyle.
I'm looking to a bigger step down to slow and fun for some conditions. My thinking is 1. Light conditions. 2. Choppy, wavy, and confused water where slower speeds are more manageable, probably windy.

Moses says I can put the Onda wings and fuselage on my Fluente mast.
That's 800€. But cheaper than buying a totally new foil, less gear, and an easy change in the parking lot. Only 2 screws.

Then I could get 558 front wing and go faster.

I'd like to hear a review from you on the Onda 633/483 used for kiting before buying.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8130
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Nov 28, 2017 9:48 pm

TomW wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:52 pm
Snip...

I'm looking to a bigger step down to slow and fun for some conditions. My thinking is 1. Light conditions. 2. Choppy, wavy, and confused water where slower speeds are more manageable, probably windy.

Snip...

Amazing so different we are...

For light conditions the big wings are awesome.

But for choppy wave confused water, and more wind, a long mast and a faster wing is IMO way easier and more fun to ride for me :thumb:

Probably just individual differences :roll:

8) PF

User avatar
gmb13
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1178
Joined: Wed Sep 12, 2007 10:19 am
Kiting since: 1999
Local Beach: Flag Beach, Fuerteventura
Style: Everything
Gear: Ozone, Axis, Moses, Zeeko, Firewire, SBS
Brand Affiliation: Foiling Basics, The Boardroom Fuerteventura, Ozone, Axiskiteboarding,Schwerelosigkite, Triggernaut,
Location: Fuerteventura
Contact:

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby gmb13 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 12:27 pm

TomW wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 8:52 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Tue Nov 28, 2017 2:00 pm
TomW wrote:
Mon Nov 27, 2017 8:27 pm
So Gunnar, if I'm already an "intermediate ", foiling around and managing most of my gybes on one side, toeside to heelside turns going better, going into switching feet in air learning phase.

I'm also interested in this approach to use small kite and gave fun.

I'm looking at the new Moses 590 front wing for my existing 2016 Fluente ( I'm riding 550-330 wings now). It looks a long way from a Takuma type wing. Probably a totally different animal.

Then there's the moses Onda surf/sup, which requires a new stabilizer, fuselage, wing. Assuming it goes onto a Fluente mast, it's 880 euros for that set up.

Or just get an entire other foil, like a Gong, LF or Takuma... More money and gear...trying to avoid.
It really depends on what you really want. Ultimate low end, or a bit more speed? If you are ok with lower speeds, go with a new foil with a big surf wing. If you want more speed and can sacrifice the low end, the 590 will be ok.

--
Gunnar
Thanks Gunnar. I'll keep my moses 550/330 wings and that's good for moderate speeds and freestyle.
I'm looking to a bigger step down to slow and fun for some conditions. My thinking is 1. Light conditions. 2. Choppy, wavy, and confused water where slower speeds are more manageable, probably windy.

Moses says I can put the Onda wings and fuselage on my Fluente mast.
That's 800€. But cheaper than buying a totally new foil, less gear, and an easy change in the parking lot. Only 2 screws.

Then I could get 558 front wing and go faster.

I'd like to hear a review from you on the Onda 633/483 used for kiting before buying.

Yes. The Onda 61 should be good. I am getting my Onda 61 soon and will be doing a video as soon as I can.

--
Gunnar

TomW
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1889
Joined: Wed Oct 05, 2005 6:43 pm
Kiting since: 2001
Local Beach: Vejbystrand
Gear: Homemade 4-1
North Mono 7 & 12
RRD Obsession 9
Core XR3 12m
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Sweden

Re: wings for using smallest kite possible

Postby TomW » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:30 pm

Gunnar, which wing?
The 633 is a pump and downwind
The 683 is surf sup.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Ramkiter, TomW and 10 guests

cron