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Nigel no mates

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cwood
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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby cwood » Fri Apr 06, 2018 12:20 am

DukeSilver wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 11:34 pm
I get on a TT now and think it feels like the most primitive watercraft ever created. So inefficient :lol: .
This exactly...sometimes we stand around watching the TT riders plowing and slapping along trying to drive upwind and comment to ourselves how primitive it looks and wonder how we ever did it. We explore and travel long distances in a short time, kite when others are on the beach, and still have lots of the freestyle type fun when we want it. End smug

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downunder
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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby downunder » Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:40 am

^
Would you tell Toby this?

How primitive look his tricks? C'mon...You were never on 10% of his level (apologizes if you were). Even Plummet says truthfully that himself was never into tricks, just boosting.

Be fair to yourself and say how many times we were approached with the statement: that looks so easy, I would loove to try it, where can I do that?

How many times a HF rider was approached with the same statement? And we talking that a HF will pickup over time...No way. Just like the Foil speed boats, they never really picked up.

Think of 3D printing, it was like a "Holly Grail, every single kid will print the toys". That did not happen and never will.

andylc wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:06 pm
Foils are just another option, not a revolution, and are especially useful for middle aged guys with disposable income.

This. Just rock up one any beach and see it for yourself. I agree, we getting older so it's pleasing on our body. It also means we have funds to support it. But the priority is to get kids into kiting first, if we do not do that, there will be no progression to HF and will die out. No one talks about it, but it's true.

Without a TT the HF will disappear and our first priority is to get the TT riders number up. One thing I did not touch yet is first death caused by the HF. One single death in the surf by cutting someone in half will caused a total ban. They will ban it, just wait how quick they are. That goes to HF sups as well. And than what?

Why I'm in it? Because I've built my HF and want to try refining it. That's the only reason.

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Kykeon
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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby Kykeon » Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:57 am

Let's have a look in this forum, in styles section.
HF has more posts (and subjects) than all other styles together...
And what's more? Before Sep 2013 it did not even exist...
Since then it's growing 2-3x every year.

The number of the companies that offer HF increases at a similar rate.

It's safe to assume a similar increase in the number of HFlers

For sure all of them have passed through TT and some (most) of them still use a TT on occasion.

It's like a single speed vs mountain or race bike.
We all learned on a single speed but then took our path. Some stayed in single speed and got into bmx or tricks others got into mountain biking.
Would you argue to a race biker that he does not do the tricks of a BMXer? we will ignore you
Would you argue to a BMXer that he can't ride with the efficiency or the distances covered from a racer? He will ignore you.

The good question is where will it stabilize as a % of kiting...
My bet is around 30% overall
but 90+% for light wind conditions and races
forum.JPG

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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby plummet » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:12 am

Ahhh.... downunders rant is amusing. I wonder if he will feel the same once he has a decent year of learning the hf?



I personally dont find the foil a revolution. I've been experiencing similar upwind angles and light wind kiting ability for over 12 years with my landkiting.
It does however add an additional string to my bow that increases my kiting grin factor an widens the fun factor wind range and condition range on the water.

Will it take over and will i ditch my mutant? Hell no!. There is a time and a place for each tool

Its hard to beat a fully charged 30+ knot boost and wave ride session on the mutant. Man it feels good.
blazing epic sand dunes in the kite buggy is sublime.
Floating over boulders on the landboard is intense
Fangin full rar on the foil in a sweet swell is awesome.

I dont wish to stop any of this activities. I go to the beach and pic the tool thats best suited to the conditions and charge.

Get out there men and have some fun. Ride what you want and have fun tt, foil sb, or whatever he who grins the most wins.

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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby plummet » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:16 am

Kykeon wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:57 am
Let's have a look in this forum, in styles section.
HF has more posts (and subjects) than all other styles together...
And what's more? Before Sep 2013 it did not even exist...
Since then it's growing 2-3x every year.

The number of the companies that offer HF increases at a similar rate.

It's safe to assume a similar increase in the number of HFlers

For sure all of them have passed through TT and some (most) of them still use a TT on occasion.

It's like a single speed vs mountain or race bike.
We all learned on a single speed but then took our path. Some stayed in single speed and got into bmx or tricks others got into mountain biking.
Would you argue to a race biker that he does not do the tricks of a BMXer? we will ignore you
Would you argue to a BMXer that he can't ride with the efficiency or the distances covered from a racer? He will ignore you.

The good question is where will it stabilize as a % of kiting...
My bet is around 30% overall
but 90+% for light wind conditions and races

forum.JPG
Good analogy man and bang on the money. But you are bringing a gun to a knife fight with all this logic and reason that you are using!

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downunder
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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby downunder » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:34 am

Kykeon wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 8:57 am
.
.

The number of the companies that offer HF increases at a similar rate.

.
.
Yes, but how much are they selling? ;) And than we have a China HF (which I've ordered as well).

It is growing right, but the number is minimal, particularly with the young riders. Also, the number of failed businesses is growing as well coz it is not sustainable. I do not know anyone having 3-5 foils. I did have 5 TT's at the time. How's that for the numbers? Let's see, is it not true you jump on another foil and it's all different...Not really user friendly is it?

God, Silver can confirm, I've seen foils mounted in reverse (not one), and ppl wondering? Again, not user friendly...

I don't think that the generalization of 90+% is right simple coz on my local when is on, it's full on. In South Africa, I do not think there are many HF riders as well. As Plummet says, lonely Nigel :)

My guesstimate? 3-5% That's if kiting tt number is growing, if not but actually declining, less than that. And than, to whom we'll sell all that gear? ;)

Ha ha Plummet, I'm the same as yourself, tools for the job...
Last edited by downunder on Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby nothing2seehere » Fri Apr 06, 2018 9:38 am

I think I can kind of see the point that downunder is making.

Right now, would you advise a complete beginner to the sport (no kite experience) to start off learning on a hydrofoil? I don't have a small mast hydrofoil so I don't know how feasible this would be but I'd advise against it with a full length mast. Just being out of your depth for those first learning runs, crashes and kite relaunches would make it out of reach for so many.

The current path is to learn on another board - twin tip or surfboard - to build the kite skills and then get onto a foil. I have seen the story about the guy in Zanzibar who could barely ride upwind jumping on the Shinn P foil and getting riding within 2 hours but I see an element of marketing in that tale.

Its not unprecedented for a sport/pasttime to often have a progression but it is fairly unusual.

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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby downunder » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:01 am

jumptheshark wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 3:21 pm
.
.

Spray is super fun, but your not throwing much in chop and light winds on a tt. You need sweet flat water and decent wind to live that dream.
.
.
Ho ho ho, that's soooo not true. The best sprays you'll ever see is on my local and a guy with 10 y wakestyle + 10 y kiting experience, 14m kite!

I stand behind this, the HF is removing this sensation from the picture (literally :) What would be surfing without the nice spray :) Ha

Sure we can boost with a HF, but only up to the wind strength. After that, it's all TT territory. Can't wait to boost the HF tho in light winds. Maybe after that I'll not go out on a high winds! Will see.

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DukeSilver
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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby DukeSilver » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:33 am

downunder wrote:
Fri Apr 06, 2018 2:40 am
^
Would you tell Toby this?

How primitive look his tricks? C'mon...You were never on 10% of his level (apologizes if you were). Even Plummet says truthfully that himself was never into tricks, just boosting.

Be fair to yourself and say how many times we were approached with the statement: that looks so easy, I would loove to try it, where can I do that?

How many times a HF rider was approached with the same statement? And we talking that a HF will pickup over time...No way. Just like the Foil speed boats, they never really picked up.

Think of 3D printing, it was like a "Holly Grail, every single kid will print the toys". That did not happen and never will.

andylc wrote:
Thu Apr 05, 2018 4:06 pm
Foils are just another option, not a revolution, and are especially useful for middle aged guys with disposable income.

This. Just rock up one any beach and see it for yourself. I agree, we getting older so it's pleasing on our body. It also means we have funds to support it. But the priority is to get kids into kiting first, if we do not do that, there will be no progression to HF and will die out. No one talks about it, but it's true.

Without a TT the HF will disappear and our first priority is to get the TT riders number up. One thing I did not touch yet is first death caused by the HF. One single death in the surf by cutting someone in half will caused a total ban. They will ban it, just wait how quick they are. That goes to HF sups as well. And than what?

Why I'm in it? Because I've built my HF and want to try refining it. That's the only reason.
Wow, what's with the anti-foiling rant?! Every time I see you at the river you are looking at our foils with great interest and saying how you can't wait to finish building your foil. When I gave you a 30 min lesson on my gear you were super excited and letting out whoops of delight when you popped up on the foil for a second and couldn't stop smiling after. What has happened since then?

I agree, Air-style does look fantastic and watching Toby kite is indeed awe inspiring. If that's what you want to do with your kiting, you should pursue it. You are a good and stylish kiter on a TT. But you have to understand, I and probably many of the foilers on here used to ride a TT. Some were probably pretty good on a TT - maybe not Toby level - but who is? And many on this foiling forum now foil almost exclusively, even though they could go out on a TT any time they wanted to. That should give you a clue that there is more to foiling than meets the eye of the casual onlooker. And it's not until you get to a minimum level of competence that you truly feel it's magic. No one is pointing a gun to our heads. If it wasn't a heap of fun, I'd sell mine and go back to a TT. As it is, I'm about to sell my TT because I just never ride it now. HF and SB is all I see myself doing going forward.

Hydrofoiling isn't for everyone and I'm glad this is the case. I do like that I'm one of only a few dozen people in my town who are doing it. I like that it's not easy to learn and requires a new skill set. I like the other foilers I meet. They are all relaxed and happy to give advice or take advice. There's none of the testosterone driven rage seen so often on a crowded beach full of freestylers all trying to show off their jumping prowess in a small area dangerously close to shore. Foilers all greet each other on the water. Foilers go where they want, happily heading downwind in near silence, knowing that they can get back to their starting points in 1 or 2 tacks. If you're a kiter that craves the stage and wants to show off (which most of us do or did if we're honest), then foiling is not your answer.

TTs will always be the mainstream kiter's board. They will always be the majority of boards on the water and what everyone learns on. Young kiters will nearly always opt for a TT due to ease of use / easy jumping and transitions. The hydrofoil will slowly become more popular as the kiting population matures - but will never overtake the TT. I kited for 9 years before taking it up and I've never been more excited about my kiting since I first learnt.
Last edited by DukeSilver on Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:56 am, edited 1 time in total.

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jumptheshark
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Re: Nigel no mates

Postby jumptheshark » Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:38 am

And how much wind does he need to throw buckets with a 14m kite?


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