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What is your HF kite quiver?

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plummet
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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby plummet » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:44 pm

I think you need a 10m Peter for when it's blowing 8.5 to 11.5 knots!

max
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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby max » Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:03 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:50 pm

ELF Joker 11.2 m2 race foilkite, 5-7 knots, used rarely now but on occasion summerdays
Storm Strutless Voyager IV 12 m2, 6½-9 knots
Zeeko One Strut Notus Air 12 m2, 7½-10 knots
Takoon Furia 9 m2, 10-12 knots
Takoon Furia 8 m2, 12-14 knots
Takoon Furia 7 m2, 14-15½ knots
Takoon Furia 6 m2, 15-18 knots
Takoon Log 5 m2, 18-22 knots
Takoon Log 3.5 m2, 23+ knots


wind is never that consistent where I live . . .

If it blowing 10 - 15.7 knots . . . do you choose the 8m or 9m?

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Kykeon
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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby Kykeon » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:58 am

Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:50 pm

ELF Joker 11.2 m2 race foilkite, 5-7 knots, used rarely now but on occasion summerdays
Storm Strutless Voyager IV 12 m2, 6½-9 knots
Zeeko One Strut Notus Air 12 m2, 7½-10 knots
Takoon Furia 9 m2, 10-12 knots
Takoon Furia 8 m2, 12-14 knots
Takoon Furia 7 m2, 14-15½ knots
Takoon Furia 6 m2, 15-18 knots
Takoon Log 5 m2, 18-22 knots
Takoon Log 3.5 m2, 23+ knots
Impressive quiver!

Is it a decision or other random reason that although you mainly have a gap of 1m2, there is a gap of 3 between 12 and 9?
Wouldn’t it be more reasonable instead of 2 x12m to have an additional one/zero strut in between?

Related question:
I’ve been wondering why both Airush Ultra and Zeeko notus (that I’ve been considering) have such a gap from 12 meters to the smaller size (9 & 8 resp)

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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby tomtom » Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:48 pm

Because there is no linear relation between wind speed and wind strength but quadratic one.
So there same demand for kite sizes - big gaps between big sizes and small gaps between smaller sizes. As wind gets weaker kites needs to be much bigger
10 and 5 knots means 4x bigger kite for same power.

Windsurfers uses sub 1m2 - difference in smaller sizes

Of course its not that simple but roughly it is...

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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby TomW » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:56 pm

I think I have to get a wind meter again. I'm still struggling with what kite to pick. And I have 5-7-9-12.
If I had 5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12....
I would never know what to pump up!!

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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:48 pm

Wow - did not know it would get so many responses :roll:

Will answer, as it is both on purpose and coincidence :D
Kykeon wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 9:58 am
Peter_Frank wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:50 pm

ELF Joker 11.2 m2 race foilkite, 5-7 knots, used rarely now but on occasion summerdays
Storm Strutless Voyager IV 12 m2, 6½-9 knots
Zeeko One Strut Notus Air 12 m2, 7½-10 knots
Takoon Furia 9 m2, 10-12 knots
Takoon Furia 8 m2, 12-14 knots
Takoon Furia 7 m2, 14-15½ knots
Takoon Furia 6 m2, 15-18 knots
Takoon Log 5 m2, 18-22 knots
Takoon Log 3.5 m2, 23+ knots
Impressive quiver!

Is it a decision or other random reason that although you mainly have a gap of 1m2, there is a gap of 3 between 12 and 9?
Wouldn’t it be more reasonable instead of 2 x12m to have an additional one/zero strut in between?

Related question:
I’ve been wondering why both Airush Ultra and Zeeko notus (that I’ve been considering) have such a gap from 12 meters to the smaller size (9 & 8 resp)

For one, the smaller sizes are used a lot for waveriding on waveboards, so the range 5 to 9 m2 is the "usual" waveboard range everyone got.

Many years ago, I had the "classic" range 5-7-9 and one "big" kite between 11 and 13 m2 for light winds on TT or freeraceboard.

It worked okay, but of course, there were loads of sessions where the 5 to 7 m2 gap, when on a waveboard was WAY too big :(

Meaning, the by far most used kite, the 7 m2, wore out extremely fast, compared to the 5 and 9, NOT well balanced....

Lately, as kites has been improving slightly every year, but not much, and prices are really good when some brands have gotten online direct and stopped all their distributor expenses - I got the choice to expand my "love", namely riding waves.
And also hydrofoiling so much now, where smaller kites were used.
So got me a 6 m2 when it was offered, and as the pricing is maybe only a bit over half as much as an Airush Ultra or Cabrinha or Boardriding Maui, it was a no brainer, knowing these kites so well since the very start.

This is what so many other have done around here, for obvious reasons - the gap 5 to 7 way too big, and even more important, it is not more expensive over time as you dont wear your kites down, so it more than evens up in my experience.

Because of this, I also got me an 8 m2, as now when foiling, it was a great size to have, and for riding waves, hmmm, a 9 m2 is hardly never used nomore as it is in general too big for waveriding, and hydrofoiling took over in this wind usually - so an 8 m2 was the sweet big kite for riding waveboards now, and the 9 for hydrofoiling or occasional riding waveboards in light winds and awesome waves.

So worked just perfect with the 5-6-7-8 and occasional 9 m2 on waveboards, and as said not more expensive because you wear a lot less.

AND you got two amazing advantages:
You can choose the perfect size on any given day !
You can choose another size, IF you got a defect (puncture or damage on rocks or whatever), and you are out on the best day on the year - instead of having to stop !

The 3.5 m2 is actually a tad too small, it should have been a 4 m2 but was not available back then - so be it, it works for high winds on waveboards or hydrofoil so okay.

In the bigger sizes, it is more of a luxury thing, and gaps can be way bigger of course.

plummet wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:44 pm
I think you need a 10m Peter for when it's blowing 8.5 to 11.5 knots!

You are right plummet, a 10 or 11 m2 (light kite, as such a size is never used on waveboards for me at 77 kg) for hydrofoiling would be awesome as the only one for light winds, but nobody offered light kites in that size, because often, as Kykeon says, there is a gap say from 8 to 12 m2 in these :(

And IMO a good wavekite works just fine on a hydrofoil up to 9 m2, but above that, NOT so, too heavy, so would never use such a kite on a hydrofoil.

Naish Trip was the only light kite in 10 m2, but it did not get the best reviews, and I was also not fully into "no struts", so not for me at that time.

TomW wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:56 pm
I think I have to get a wind meter again. I'm still struggling with what kite to pick. And I have 5-7-9-12.
If I had 5-6-7-8-9-10-11-12....
I would never know what to pump up!!
max wrote:
Tue Jan 02, 2018 11:03 pm

wind is never that consistent where I live . . .

If it blowing 10 - 15.7 knots . . . do you choose the 8m or 9m?

Depends on what I want to do - choosing is easy, it is a lot worse if you have to choose between a too small or too big kite :(

Say wind is "felt" to be 10 to 15.7 knots as you write, then I would probably take longer lines and an 8 m2, and a bigger lively wave wing - then I wont be overpowered in the upper end, have fun, and can manage easily in the lower end too.
Or one could choose a 9 m2 and a smaller wing and do more powerful moves when wind in the upper end, if one likes that on this day.

Having sailed and flown and windsurfed and surfed and kitesurfed 45 years, it is easy to evaluate the wind patterns, thus which kitesize to choose.

Never by means of a windmeter, but experience.
Windmeters are good to get some relative points of knowledge yourself when you know how to.
But only weather stations and average wind up higher in free air can be used as an approximate value to share with others.

But you are right - I've met many kitesurfers (not only foilers) who are in doubt which size to take, and usually choose depending on what others ride/choose, knowing the "offset" to their weight/skill/liking :roll:

Would say though, if the wind is a bit "uncertain" on a given day - then you change into your wetsuit first, rig the desired board/wing, put your bar/lines out, stake set up - all except your kite, so lastly you choose your kitesize, as now you have had a bit more time to evaluate the wind without wasting any time, so you know which size to choose naturally without thinking - just a practical hint but assume everyone does it this way :wink:
If you know from the forecast and experience that the wind will go up or down when out, you think and offset size to one side based on this of course - but otherwise not.

tomtom wrote:
Wed Jan 03, 2018 1:48 pm
Because there is no linear relation between wind speed and wind strength but quadratic one.
So there same demand for kite sizes - big gaps between big sizes and small gaps between smaller sizes. As wind gets weaker kites needs to be much bigger
10 and 5 knots means 4x bigger kite for same power.

Windsurfers uses sub 1m2 - difference in smaller sizes

Of course its not that simple but roughly it is...

Spot on tomtom, and this is also why the 3.5 to 5 m2 is a huge gap...
The reason it is okay, is I dont use kites below 5 that often, so not a big issue and works for these days.

Regarding the lower end, bigger kites, well, the 11 m2 racefoilkite gets me going in 5-6 knots sometimes, with long lines and right board/wing - so used on some summerdays.
A bigger one maybe 13 m2 might be even better, but again, it is no fun riding these kites because there is a risk of dropping it, a huge risk in this very low end - and they turn slow and not as fun carving, but also a challenge to do 360s with such a kite of course, so still great fun for the challenge and the awesome summerweather on these days.
But hardly worth getting a bigger one, as it will have even more of these drawbacks too, so I would be just fine starting at 6-7 knots with my LEIs instead.

Have had the Notus Air 12 m2 one strut for a long time, awesome kite both on normal 26 m2 lines and on longer lines, hangs great in lulls, can hang in less than you can ride, and really good depower ability (grunty kites are aaaargh on a hydrofoil) - and still one strut to hold it up IF it goes down because the wind dies and you have to drift ashore (and a good camera mount option on these beautiful days).

When Storm had their IV releases now, I wanted to try if a 12 m2 Light Speed to se if the high AR could get me even lower, and still be an inflatable with all their advantages, but Pedro beat me to it and could say it was a great hangtime kite with awesome range and upwind ability, but NOT a low end kite, compared to the classic Voyagers.
So again, as the pricing is fine on these too, I chose to get the new 12 m2 strutless Voyager IV this autumn, way lighter than a typical 1 strut - to see how it worked, as everyone around here want to buy a light 12 m2 so can easily hand one over to another hydrofoiler.

This kite pushes the low end a tad further down with even less risk, turns great, and almost impossible to get it to "drop" (havent had it in the water yet), so also loving this kite.

Of course, I want to keep one of them only, but they both work so great and different so not that easy to decide - but, it is winter here so these sizes are hardly never used before spring/summer so no hurry :naughty:


Sorry for the long post, but would answer all questions about these choices and WHY, the three big ones are more of a coincidence, as an 11-12 m2 light kite could do it as the only one after the 9 m2, and smaller than a 4 to 5 m2 is also a luxury I could omit if I wanted to - the rest makes perfect sense, are not more expensive as you wear less, and you have a backup in case of a defect so never any risk of any "ended before YOU want" sessions.

8) PF

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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby TomW » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:09 pm

"But you are right - I've met many kitesurfers (not only foilers) who are in doubt which size to take, and usually choose depending on what others ride/choose, knowing the "offset" to their weight/skill/liking :roll:

Would say though, if the wind is a bit "uncertain" on a given day - then you change into your wetsuit first, rig the desired board/wing, put your bar/lines out, stake set up - all except your kite, so lastly you choose your kitesize, as now you have had a bit more time to evaluate the wind without wasting any time, so you know which size to choose naturally without thinking - just a practical hint but assume everyone does it this way :wink:
If you know from the forecast and experience that the wind will go up or down when out, you think and offset size to one side based on this of course - but otherwise not."


Yes. good advice!!
I also have a lot of experience, but finding that foiling is confusing me. Also i kite 80% of time alone in NW Skåne, so I cannot see other kiters out. But when there are others out it helps a lot.

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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby Frank Rosin » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:21 pm

My most kites in use the last weeks have been Hyperlink 5m, Hyperlink 9m and R1 17m.
A lot of days it would also have been possible to ride the next size up or down of these three kites from what I actually used.
What I am trying to say is that size choice for hydrofoiling is depending a lot on personal preference, maybe mostly really.

Cheers,
Frank
www.famousfrank.com

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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby jakemoore » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:09 pm

Frank Rosin wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:21 pm
Hyperlink 5m,
www.famousfrank.com
I wonder what your range on the HL 5 is Famous Frank?

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Re: What is your HF kite quiver?

Postby Frank Rosin » Thu Jan 04, 2018 9:41 pm

jakemoore wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:09 pm
Frank Rosin wrote:
Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:21 pm
Hyperlink 5m,
www.famousfrank.com
I wonder what your range on the HL 5 is Famous Frank?

Hi Jake,

this is what I wrote earlier in this thread:
Frank Rosin wrote:
Sun Dec 03, 2017 9:15 pm
...this is what I mostly used the last few months and most likely the next few winter months to come:

19m R1 <12kts (18m and 14m lines)
17m R1 8-16kts (14m lines)
9m Hyperlink 12-25kts (14m lines)
7m Hyperlink 20-30kts (12m lines)
5m Hyperlink 25-45kts (12m lines)

Wind ranges are not what is possible, but how I use them mostly.

I still own, but haven't ridden in a while, smaller R1s, 5m Edge and 4m Enduro.
On Moses hydrofoils mostly, all of them ;)

Cheers,
Frank
www.famousfrank.com

I think I have actually used the 5m Hyperlink in steady 15 knots already and in close to 50 knots gusts.
I guess the low end could be pushed quite a bit further.
The sweetest spot for me within my quiver I would see mostly at 25-35 knots.

Cheers,
Frank
www.famousfrank.com


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