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Kite loop to waterstart

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby Peter_Frank » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:05 pm

Pedro Marcos wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 9:45 pm
Rider mistakes, more time on the water, all you described will disapear.

Spot on, best advice yet - one can not say specifically what you do wrong, nor can you correct it "thinking" - just ride and it will dissapear :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby Little Steve » Wed Dec 06, 2017 10:55 pm

All good feedback. I think I need more time in some quality wind conditions. My best times so far have been when the wind was at least enough to form light whitecaps and steady. Then I was able to sheet out and control the height off the water with the kite pull rather than weight shifts. We have some current with the wind depending on the tide and that was making it seem even lighter when it is marginal. Hope I get a few more seshes in before it gets too cold.

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:30 am

About loop direction backward (pull on rear hand, I call it downloop , DL) vs frontward (pull on front hand, I call it Uploop ,UL) ; I speak mainly for foilkites but I sometimes do the same with LEI if the wind dropped down surprisingly .

So DL is a must, and the easiest way (because requires less working of the kite ); very efficient and you have a longuer and slower travel of the kite (since in your direction) ,So it also leaves you more room and time to point more upwind if the kite is not flying properly (to tention the lines)

- in case you do not get enough power with DL you can do a UL, more powerfull but IMO requires a bit more balance. Also easier strapless to keep rear hand hanging the board.

In both case I recommend beginners to turn your bar 360 degres before launching the loop : psychologically easier and more precise in the end of the loop and for the rest of the ride without having to turn the bar during the ride (not easy for a beginner in light wind) ; i still sometimes do that anticipated bar turn , very comfortable and to save thin line wear.

- in ultralight wind the ultimate loop is one UL first to get one the board without foiling, and then another DL to accelerate and foil-up. Timing is not obvious but it also allows you to get clean lines without turning the bar neither before nor after the waterstart.

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby slowboat » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:14 am

Regis-de-giens wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 9:30 am
About loop direction backward (pull on rear hand, I call it downloop , DL) vs frontward (pull on front hand, I call it Uploop ,UL) ; I speak mainly for foilkites but I sometimes do the same with LEI if the wind dropped down surprisingly .

So DL is a must, and the easiest way (because requires less working of the kite ); very efficient and you have a longuer and slower travel of the kite (since in your direction) ,So it also leaves you more room and time to point more upwind if the kite is not flying properly (to tention the lines)

- in case you do not get enough power with DL you can do a UL, more powerfull but IMO requires a bit more balance. Also easier strapless to keep rear hand hanging the board.

In both case I recommend beginners to turn your bar 360 degres before launching the loop : psychologically easier and more precise in the end of the loop and for the rest of the ride without having to turn the bar during the ride (not easy for a beginner in light wind) ; i still sometimes do that anticipated bar turn , very comfortable and to save thin line wear.

- in ultralight wind the ultimate loop is one UL first to get one the board without foiling, and then another DL to accelerate and foil-up. Timing is not obvious but it also allows you to get clean lines without turning the bar neither before nor after the waterstart.
Great explanation and very helpful to people new to all this like me. Question: On a very light day, I practiced by standing in the water, had kite at 12 and rapidly looped it: the kite started to loop but hit the water before it could come around. I did turn my bar forcefully to start the loop and held it. I wonder if I did something wrong or was the wind too light? Kite was 13 M LEI with 20 M lines.

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby Regis-de-giens » Fri Dec 08, 2017 4:50 pm

Thanks ; just need to pull very hard on one line some beginners are afraid to maintain the tension all along the loop when it starts pulling hard; as a tip, if you loop toward the right , you can hold the bar by the right extremity onl ( so up to be parallel to the center power line and open the left hand) to force keeping the loop tight

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby plummet » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:04 pm

To answer the down loop question. Back loop first. Then if that does get you foiling follow it with a front loop. The lighter the wind the bigger the loop. Don't fish pole the bar with a tight pussy loop in ultra light wind. Give that loop some grunt and smash a wide arc.

The next rule of thumb for light wind learning. If you cant foil along and jybe without falling off Don't go out if you cant water relaunch your kite. That's typically sub 10 knots for lei's. Wait for wind that allows you to water relaunch,

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby OzBungy » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:57 am

The biggest mistake is you are trying to learn in too light winds. You want at least 15 knots (17 mph?). You need enough wind so that the kite is easy to fly and easy to keep in the air. You want to water start with ease, but not loads of power. Start off with more wind and the same size kite you would use with a surfboard or TT. You will quickly want to go down a kite size of two but start with something with a little power.

People think of foiling as a light wind sport. It's not. It's an all wind sport. It can be done in light wind but that is a relatively advanced skill. You have to be able to keep the kite in the air no matter what and you have to be able to deal with the foil relatively instinctively. If you drop the kite in light winds then your session is over.

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby oz43 » Mon Feb 05, 2018 3:30 am

robclaisse wrote:
Wed Dec 06, 2017 4:48 pm
10m Neo is my biggest kite and I learn in similar winds (and I'm 220lbs), so stick with the 11 or 9m - the faster turning kites are easier to keep moving and save if they do start stalling. When you do get up and start foiling, you'll find you then have plenty of power once the apparent wind kicks in.

In those really light winds, I find that it's best not to bring your kite too low as you can't really keep tension against the lines when its right at the bottom of the wind window and the wind can be even lighter down low. So keep the kite flying in the top 2/3's of the wind window, which also helps to keep weight off your feet and the board.

When I got into foiling I hadn't ridden in lightwinds for a long time so part of the practice is just getting used to flying your kites when really underpowered and being able to feel when a kite is gonna stall and react before it does. Like anything you get better with time.
Hi Rob,

I'm just starting into foiling and am also around 220 lbs. What sort of wind range were you riding your 10m when you were learning? And what sort of wind range do you use it in now? I have a 10m drifter which I think is pretty similar. I'd like to learn more on it if possible as my only other kite at the moment is a 12m OR Razor.

Any other information you think relevant will be appreciated as I likely going to be looking at other kite sizes soon.

Thank you

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby Horst Sergio » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:37 am

Hi Steve,

don't think to much about which way to loop and so on, just blocks your head. In my eyes it is much more about experience and many small adjustments,
- find the perfect board direction in the right moment
- actively stand up not letting the kite do all the work
- loop it as wide and powerful you can front and back how it comes:

This is a start with a 4,5 m² in not much more than 10 knts:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9Bien5 ... be&t=2m30s

... hydrofoiling is so great and safe, good luck, did no more remember how scary it felt to launch an overpowered kite on the beach all the years with the twintip :D

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Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby robclaisse » Mon Feb 05, 2018 11:05 am

Hey @oz43.

When I learnt I used my 10m from about 10-15 knots. Then used my 8m for 15-20 knots. But my Neo's have crazy bottom end so you might want to shift those up by 2 knots.

Now I'd use a 12m in the lower wind range and then probably change straight to my 8m. But I have little interest in going fast and I much prefer to work the kite off the foil and do lots of loops in turns etc to keep foiling.

What I'm finding more and more, as I test different foils and kites, is that the type of foil (and kite to a lesser degree) has a big impact on how easy it is to learn but also how much power you want from your kite.

What foil/board are you riding?

I feel I learnt a lot in my early sessions riding in lighter winds and having to work the kite a lot. It makes you really think about how power from the kite transfers to the foil and how the foil generates and loses lift but it's easier when you are on a freeride style foil that produces lift gradually rather than the more sudden lift produces by more advanced foils. There is some much development in the foil designs at the moment that is becoming far far easier to learn with less power.

Having said all this, once I had the basics, some of my quickest progressions has been on a 5m kite in strong winds.

Overall it's all just a lot of fun and so many new things to learn :D


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