Kite loop to waterstart

[slowboat]

I think if a beginner foiler needs to loop to waterstart, he has too small of a kite. When you are learning, there is so much going on with the foil that you should be powered enough so you don't have to think about the kite. As your board/foil skills improve, you can progress to using smaller kites for the same wind condition.

[robclaisse]

@slowboat, I completely agree. Looping to waterstart is not something you wanted to be doing when first learning to foil - if you do need to its too light and more of a survive technique to try and get you in with you are out to see.

[BWD]

I think it depends on the gear and the rider.
A rider who is advanced in kite skill may find looping to start practical and necessary sometimes.
I used to start that way on surfboards a lot, but foiling I have rarely done it. I use a big wing and a paipo with cloud kites, for me it works better at the low end to slowly build speed for a few seconds as the wing starts to help lift the board. When 10 knots or less, with the minimum kite size ( 9m or 12m for me ), the wing might pop me halfway up with a loop, but then would crash and submerge the board again, so it's not use. I have not found enough boardspeed this way to keep on foil from a loop in lightest wind, and haven't done it by pumping. And i don't really want to have to loop 2-3 times just to start, it often doesn't work because adding loops only adds limited pull, after the first one.
But with a bigger or different kite and board, looping might be the way to go.
I have had better luck timing my starts so I get a push from a little chop or wave, that works well.
I am only on foil session 25 or so, so take my level in consideration if you know better.

[Peter_Frank]

Maybe slightly off topic (or not), but some seem to advice to backloop to start in the lowest wind ?

Personally, I definitely prefer to downloop (forwards) to get up in marginal winds - as this gives a peak with the right angle between the kite and board directionn IMO.

But apparently others have found the backwards loop to work better ?

Interesting to hear different opinions

PF

[foilonfoil]

All my buddies and I use downloops starting at the top of the window away from your intended direction of travel (backloop) so that the kite swings through the bottom of the window at speed. Bring it up the window at 30 degrees vs a full circle to use the power for your water start. I am normally up and standing on the board as the kite is still traveling down the lower back of the window.

In really light conditions, I will backloop twice - Once to get up on the board and the second to get going.

Cabrinha Switchblades are really heavy kites so not optimal for light winds.

Light wind kite flying is a skill all by itself beyond learning to foil and forward and back downlooping are the critical skills to learn.

I still make mistakes - Most commonly is once you have apparent wind and boat speed, it is not obvious when you sail into a hole with really light to zero wind other than water surface changes. Nothing worse than slowing only to find barely enough wind to keep the kite up.

[cwood]

80% backloop as it feels like a slingshot and when you emerge from the loop it is travelling in your intended direction...just feels smoother. I will kiteloop if my backloop wasn't enough to get up and I have a twist rather than spin the bar.

[jeromeL]

as a beginner probably a bit hard to use unless you use loop to get up on board as the kite goes back up to 12.
I have never used downloop but with back loop I have tried a few things.
1) in marginal wind to get as much speed and power from kite very wide loop, and get teh kite to go right in middle of window in direction of travel. Because kite is low you really need to tuck the leg in to get up.
2) same but get the kite to shoot up to 12 after loop and sheet in to get up and dive kite to get going or do a second loop.
3) when there is a bit more wind you can make a tighter loop and you get slingshot up on foil right away as kite finish loop.

[Peter_Frank]

Interesting - so some feel they get MORE power when looping back instead of forwards, or ?

I agree it feels smoother - but this is IMO because you dont get the same kick, as if you looped forward.

It is like you get the same power overall yes, but it is more distributed and not packed into a peak spike.

This peak spike however, when doing it forward, might get you up and foiling in one shot - and once up foiling you can live with the small drop in power when it goes around past 12 again.
Whereas if I loop backwards, I lose some powerspike because the kite and me are travelling in opposite directions so to speak, giving less power where you need it the most

So IMO forward is the way to get up on the board in marginal winds, and sometimes even able to get foiling in the same instance.

Lets hear what experiences others got with this ?

Not that it matters much - we all find our own ways, but maybe we could learn something

PF

[borist]

I use one or the other depending on the situation. For me the backloop has a benefit of pulling up/lifting in the direction of the flight that helps to get going strait without riding the board. Forward does create a peak at angle that seems to produce more pull and also tends to be quicker/more natural to setup with large kite when I need to get going very quickly after body drag and kite is barely hanging in the air, but if I over-cook it it will pull me towards shallows more that backloop would. So I choose based on the situation

[Regis-de-giens]

Same for me ( that I had detailled ut in previous messages calling the backloop 'DL' (for downloop) and forward loop 'UL'( for Uploop in the sens of loop starting upwind);

In case of ultimate low end, I use first a UL to just get out of water (knees bending at their maximum to just go over the board with no speed) , then a DL to generate speed in a second step; on top of giving the most power, this avoid to turn the bar after the loop to untwist the line, so you have a more accurate drive during this sensitive acceleration phase ; it also is more adapted to strapless since you keep you rear hand holding the board during the first UL.