Contact   Imprint   Advertising   Guidelines

Kite loop to waterstart

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


slowboat
Medium Poster
Posts: 138
Joined: Sat Jun 10, 2017 2:55 pm
Kiting since: 2000
Gear: North, Liquid Force
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby slowboat » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:22 pm

I think if a beginner foiler needs to loop to waterstart, he has too small of a kite. When you are learning, there is so much going on with the foil that you should be powered enough so you don't have to think about the kite. As your board/foil skills improve, you can progress to using smaller kites for the same wind condition.

User avatar
robclaisse
Medium Poster
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Sep 20, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 2000
Local Beach: Shoreham-by-sea, UK
Favorite Beaches: Waddell Creek - Santa Cruz, USA
Tableview, Cape Town, SA
Style: Waves / Foiling
Gear: North Neo's : 10,8,6,5
Firewire Vader 5'3"
Shinn Jackson / F-foil
Brand Affiliation: Progression Sports (Formally Fat Sand)
Location: Brighton, UK. Owner of Progression Sports
Contact:

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby robclaisse » Mon Feb 05, 2018 12:40 pm

@slowboat, I completely agree. Looping to waterstart is not something you wanted to be doing when first learning to foil - if you do need to its too light and more of a survive technique to try and get you in with you are out to see.

BWD
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 3254
Joined: Thu Jun 05, 2003 3:37 am

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby BWD » Mon Feb 05, 2018 6:41 pm

I think it depends on the gear and the rider.
A rider who is advanced in kite skill may find looping to start practical and necessary sometimes.
I used to start that way on surfboards a lot, but foiling I have rarely done it. I use a big wing and a paipo with cloud kites, for me it works better at the low end to slowly build speed for a few seconds as the wing starts to help lift the board. When 10 knots or less, with the minimum kite size ( 9m or 12m for me ), the wing might pop me halfway up with a loop, but then would crash and submerge the board again, so it's not use. I have not found enough boardspeed this way to keep on foil from a loop in lightest wind, and haven't done it by pumping. And i don't really want to have to loop 2-3 times just to start, it often doesn't work because adding loops only adds limited pull, after the first one.
But with a bigger or different kite and board, looping might be the way to go.
I have had better luck timing my starts so I get a push from a little chop or wave, that works well.
I am only on foil session 25 or so, so take my level in consideration if you know better. ;)

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8437
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby Peter_Frank » Mon Feb 05, 2018 10:35 pm

Maybe slightly off topic (or not), but some seem to advice to backloop to start in the lowest wind ?

Personally, I definitely prefer to downloop (forwards) to get up in marginal winds - as this gives a peak with the right angle between the kite and board directionn IMO.

But apparently others have found the backwards loop to work better ?

Interesting to hear different opinions :D

8) PF

User avatar
foilonfoil
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 504
Joined: Thu Mar 19, 2015 8:31 am
Kiting since: 2013
Local Beach: Belmont Shore, CA / Hood River, OR
Favorite Beaches: Crissy Field, San Francisco, CA / Benicia, CA / Sail Bay, San Diego, CA / Hermosa Beach, CA
Style: Kitefoil
Gear: Current: Flysurfer Sonic 2's, Core Section V1's, MikesLab Foil, Camet Boards. Previous: AlpineFoil Carbon 5.0, Spotz Tuna/Shark, Banga
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby foilonfoil » Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:20 am

All my buddies and I use downloops starting at the top of the window away from your intended direction of travel (backloop) so that the kite swings through the bottom of the window at speed. Bring it up the window at 30 degrees vs a full circle to use the power for your water start. I am normally up and standing on the board as the kite is still traveling down the lower back of the window.

In really light conditions, I will backloop twice - Once to get up on the board and the second to get going.

Cabrinha Switchblades are really heavy kites so not optimal for light winds.

Light wind kite flying is a skill all by itself beyond learning to foil and forward and back downlooping are the critical skills to learn.

I still make mistakes - Most commonly is once you have apparent wind and boat speed, it is not obvious when you sail into a hole with really light to zero wind other than water surface changes. Nothing worse than slowing only to find barely enough wind to keep the kite up.

cwood
Frequent Poster
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Mar 24, 2015 7:28 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Cherry Beach, Toronto
Gear: Flysurfer
Moses Hydrofoil
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby cwood » Tue Feb 06, 2018 1:26 am

80% backloop as it feels like a slingshot and when you emerge from the loop it is travelling in your intended direction...just feels smoother. I will kiteloop if my backloop wasn't enough to get up and I have a twist rather than spin the bar.

User avatar
jeromeL
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 1078
Joined: Thu Sep 04, 2014 6:22 pm
Kiting since: 2014
Local Beach: Longisland NY
Style: freestyle
Gear: Fone Bandit 2014 12m^2, 2015 9, 2015 7, 2015 14
Best GP 2015 9m
Star Sirius V2 12m
Nobile Fity/50 138cm
Naish Apex bindings.
Zeeko Green and White + Shinn El Stubbo
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Longisland, NY, USA
Contact:

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby jeromeL » Tue Feb 06, 2018 4:07 pm

as a beginner probably a bit hard to use unless you use loop to get up on board as the kite goes back up to 12.
I have never used downloop but with back loop I have tried a few things.
1) in marginal wind to get as much speed and power from kite very wide loop, and get teh kite to go right in middle of window in direction of travel. Because kite is low you really need to tuck the leg in to get up.
2) same but get the kite to shoot up to 12 after loop and sheet in to get up and dive kite to get going or do a second loop.
3) when there is a bit more wind you can make a tighter loop and you get slingshot up on foil right away as kite finish loop.

User avatar
Peter_Frank
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 8437
Joined: Wed Oct 16, 2002 1:00 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: Denmark

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby Peter_Frank » Tue Feb 06, 2018 5:57 pm

Interesting - so some feel they get MORE power when looping back instead of forwards, or ?

I agree it feels smoother - but this is IMO because you dont get the same kick, as if you looped forward.

It is like you get the same power overall yes, but it is more distributed and not packed into a peak spike.

This peak spike however, when doing it forward, might get you up and foiling in one shot - and once up foiling you can live with the small drop in power when it goes around past 12 again.
Whereas if I loop backwards, I lose some powerspike because the kite and me are travelling in opposite directions so to speak, giving less power where you need it the most :roll:

So IMO forward is the way to get up on the board in marginal winds, and sometimes even able to get foiling in the same instance.

Lets hear what experiences others got with this ?

Not that it matters much - we all find our own ways, but maybe we could learn something :naughty:

8) PF

borist
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 513
Joined: Tue Apr 20, 2010 12:30 am
Kiting since: 0
Brand Affiliation: None
Location: San Diego, CA

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby borist » Thu Feb 08, 2018 3:55 am

I use one or the other depending on the situation. For me the backloop has a benefit of pulling up/lifting in the direction of the flight that helps to get going strait without riding the board. Forward does create a peak at angle that seems to produce more pull and also tends to be quicker/more natural to setup with large kite when I need to get going very quickly after body drag and kite is barely hanging in the air, but if I over-cook it it will pull me towards shallows more that backloop would. So I choose based on the situation

Regis-de-giens
Very Frequent Poster
Posts: 650
Joined: Thu Jul 31, 2014 2:58 pm
Kiting since: 2002
Local Beach: France: St Laurent du Var, Cannes, Almanarre
Style: 62 kg , light wind
Gear: Conceptair pulsion 15&12, Elf 11 &7, OR Flite 10m , Airush One 9&6, Rally 6&4.
foil Ketos, Zone, OR mako, snowskis, kite-boat
Brand Affiliation: None

Re: Kite loop to waterstart

Postby Regis-de-giens » Thu Feb 08, 2018 9:07 am

Same for me ( that I had detailled ut in previous messages calling the backloop 'DL' (for downloop) and forward loop 'UL'( for Uploop in the sens of loop starting upwind);

In case of ultimate low end, I use first a UL to just get out of water (knees bending at their maximum to just go over the board with no speed) , then a DL to generate speed in a second step; on top of giving the most power, this avoid to turn the bar after the loop to untwist the line, so you have a more accurate drive during this sensitive acceleration phase ; it also is more adapted to strapless since you keep you rear hand holding the board during the first UL.


Return to “Hydrofoil”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: jaros, Slyde, Zeeko and 8 guests