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carving to toe

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neilhapgood
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carving to toe

Postby neilhapgood » Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:36 pm

Hi all, apologies I have posted about this already but not yet tried it and have another question!

I am getting better with my downwind angles and managing to get fairly deep now, especially if its onshore with a small swell running to pick up.

If I am going to carve to toe (bringing the kite over the top, not looping) is it best to get as deep as you can downwind first then go for it or do you need more line tension so better to come from a beam/broad reach?

thanks

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Re: carving to toe

Postby TomW » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:00 pm

I'll answer this as I learned to do it recently and the regulars here have answered it a bunch of times. You should search for videos.

Basically you are on wrong track.

Ride more up wind, keep kite low at 45 degrees.
Initiate kite turn fairly aggressively, and quickly follow by yawing board into and thru the turn.
Look where you are turning. Keep yawing thru the arc.
Seek to maintain like tension by coming around quickly.
It helps me to think of swinging nose of board in a downward arc. The board wants to raise anyway.
I start turn with board at mid altitude,
I find it helps to do a slight and quick upwind turn to create a counter rotation to help yaw into the turn.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: carving to toe

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:11 pm

neilhapgood wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 12:36 pm
Hi all, apologies I have posted about this already but not yet tried it and have another question!

I am getting better with my downwind angles and managing to get fairly deep now, especially if its onshore with a small swell running to pick up.

If I am going to carve to toe (bringing the kite over the top, not looping) is it best to get as deep as you can downwind first then go for it or do you need more line tension so better to come from a beam/broad reach?

thanks

Hi Neil

Your very first carves should be done from going upwind, way easier and actually the only way in lighter wind.

If more wind, you can do it a bit more downwind, but here you risk getting too much speed so you will crash with slack lines :(

So start learning carves from an upwind course :D

When you get experienced you can do it in more wind especially, on more or deep downwind courses, also with a downloop instead - but dont downloop for starters as so many things can go wrong and your kite WILL end in the drink...
As opposed to a normal turn where you might get slack lines and drop board on the surface, but good kites will usually just drift and can be kept flying or even saved if they dont drift well - NOT possible with a downloop.

Your main problem will be that you are not able to make a tight continous turn, it takes a lot of time, so you will go too much downwind during the carve, leading to slack lines.

When you start the turn from an upwind course, you got a lot more room for turning and not prone to slack lines.

When going deep downwind, downloops works so much better/easier actually - but your timing has to be right, and you dont have this timing till much much later.

8) PF

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Pedro Marcos
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Re: carving to toe

Postby Pedro Marcos » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:26 pm

Yup, doing it when going upwind its way easier and the trick its to keep tension on the lines all the time. Because you wont probably be able to make a tight turn you might want to keep moving the kite with small inputs while turning to keep line tension.

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Re: carving to toe

Postby plummet » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:31 pm

I say don't over think it. Just carve around like you would on a surfboard. To make it easier have a nice amount of kite power. Not so little that you run out of grunt mid turn and not so much that you get pulled into a high speed toeside death run. For me that's about 15 knots on the 8m

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Re: carving to toe

Postby plummet » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:54 pm

One more ditty of advice. Keep the foil low to start with. Then when you can low level foil carve around take it higher.

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Re: carving to toe

Postby slowboat » Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:57 pm

Isn't the easiest way to learn this is the be on the surface and downloop and just let the kite pull you around? Then when you are comfortable, do the same in the air.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: carving to toe

Postby Peter_Frank » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:03 pm

slowboat wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:57 pm
Isn't the easiest way to learn this is the be on the surface and downloop and just let the kite pull you around? Then when you are comfortable, do the same in the air.

IMO no, as this will only teach you to learn to make an almost "normal" turn like you do on a TT or a surfboard, which is really easy and almost everything is different or even wrong, and the timing are two different worlds.

So even when you can do this (and this is easy as pretty much like you have always done only hindered a tad by the mast), you will be toast when trying something similar when up foiling :o

Of course it will be fine to learn/do this for starters if you can not turn at all when up foiling, but pretty useless IMO as it wont lead you to foiling jibes, most likely build wrong habits instead :naughty:

8) PF

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Re: carving to toe

Postby jeromeL » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:30 pm

TomW wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:00 pm
I'll answer this as I learned to do it recently and the regulars here have answered it a bunch of times. You should search for videos.

Basically you are on wrong track.

Ride more up wind, keep kite low at 45 degrees.
Initiate kite turn fairly aggressively, and quickly follow by yawing board into and thru the turn.
Look where you are turning. Keep yawing thru the arc.
Seek to maintain like tension by coming around quickly.
It helps me to think of swinging nose of board in a downward arc. The board wants to raise anyway.
I start turn with board at mid altitude,
I find it helps to do a slight and quick upwind turn to create a counter rotation to help yaw into the turn.
I am new to foiling too, I agree that it clicked for me when i initiated it from going upwind and turning aggressively to toe side.
I practiced first going deep then back upwind but looks like you got that ready already.

At first I couldn't do it while sending ktie through 12 and kept stalling, doing a downloop by first sending kite up then initated carve and right after initated downloop really maded it easier for me. now i can do it without downloop by being more aggressive with kite but it helped with downloop at first.

That's basically my first day attempting going to toeside:
phpBB [video]

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Re: carving to toe

Postby slowboat » Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:47 pm

Peter_Frank wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 8:03 pm
slowboat wrote:
Fri Dec 08, 2017 7:57 pm
Isn't the easiest way to learn this is the be on the surface and downloop and just let the kite pull you around? Then when you are comfortable, do the same in the air.

IMO no, as this will only teach you to learn to make an almost "normal" turn like you do on a TT or a surfboard, which is really easy and almost everything is different or even wrong, and the timing are two different worlds.

So even when you can do this (and this is easy as pretty much like you have always done only hindered a tad by the mast), you will be toast when trying something similar when up foiling :o

Of course it will be fine to learn/do this for starters if you can not turn at all when up foiling, but pretty useless IMO as it wont lead you to foiling jibes, most likely build wrong habits instead :naughty:

8) PF
This is really helpful. Can you explain in more detail how the timing and technique is different: surface vs foil carve to toeside with downloop?


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