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Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

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Foil
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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby Foil » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:55 pm

I do know one thing, using the short mast on the sup wave wing is more energetic, dynamic, turns are quick, much more so than when using my 101 mast, I do believe after loads more practice in conditions that will help me to improve, then this will be my direction (when conditions allow)otherwise the long mast with the sup wing will be my choice, annoying really as I have so many wings-the full set from Moses and more,there is a lot of cash been spent,on wings and stabilizers I may never put to use again.
but until you buy and try them you don't know, and you dont know what you don't try.

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby cwood » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:12 pm

Foil wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:55 pm
I do know one thing, using the short mast on the sup wave wing is more energetic, dynamic, turns are quick, much more so than when using my 101 mast, I do believe after loads more practice in conditions that will help me to improve, then this will be my direction (when conditions allow)otherwise the long mast with the sup wing will be my choice, annoying really as I have so many wings-the full set from Moses and more,there is a lot of cash been spent,on wings and stabilizers I may never put to use again.
but until you buy and try them you don't know, and you dont know what you don't try.
Maybe we should have a Moses wing loaner program? :-) Some guys have just ordered the complete 633 setup here so I hope to try before I buy.

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Laughingman
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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby Laughingman » Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:27 pm

Foil wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:55 pm
I do know one thing, using the short mast on the sup wave wing is more energetic, dynamic, turns are quick, much more so than when using my 101 mast, I do believe after loads more practice in conditions that will help me to improve, then this will be my direction (when conditions allow)otherwise the long mast with the sup wing will be my choice, annoying really as I have so many wings-the full set from Moses and more,there is a lot of cash been spent,on wings and stabilizers I may never put to use again.
but until you buy and try them you don't know, and you dont know what you don't try.
I just recently switched from 60cm to 100cm. Wow what a huge difference especially with the impulse wings. Once I learn my jibes and tacks I will probably go back to the 60cm whenever conditions allow. Way more agile and responsive with the 60cm, I feel like the water is thicker when I’m using the 100cm mast.

slowboat
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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby slowboat » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:38 pm

Laughingman wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 4:27 pm
Foil wrote:
Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:55 pm
I do know one thing, using the short mast on the sup wave wing is more energetic, dynamic, turns are quick, much more so than when using my 101 mast, I do believe after loads more practice in conditions that will help me to improve, then this will be my direction (when conditions allow)otherwise the long mast with the sup wing will be my choice, annoying really as I have so many wings-the full set from Moses and more,there is a lot of cash been spent,on wings and stabilizers I may never put to use again.
but until you buy and try them you don't know, and you dont know what you don't try.
I just recently switched from 60cm to 100cm. Wow what a huge difference especially with the impulse wings. Once I learn my jibes and tacks I will probably go back to the 60cm whenever conditions allow. Way more agile and responsive with the 60cm, I feel like the water is thicker when I’m using the 100cm mast.
Really interesting and surprising to me. I wish I could understand why a shorter mast feels more dynamic or lively to you guys.

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jumptheshark
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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby jumptheshark » Sun Apr 08, 2018 5:54 pm

The arc of every turn is quicker. Your swinging a shorter axe around down there.

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Peter_Frank
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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby Peter_Frank » Sun Apr 08, 2018 6:58 pm

True :thumb:

A shorter mast means you got a shorter lever from the wings up to your center of mass, so yes it will be more lively indeed.

Say you got a 100 cm mast, and board 5 cm thick, and your center of mass is about 100 cm over the bottom of your feet typically.

This means the "lever" is 15 % shorter if you use a 70 cm instead of a 100 cm, thus a bit more agile indeed, although not as much as the difference in mast length :D


It might be me, but I find myself LESS agile on my short 83 cm mast, than the 91 and 100 cm ones :roll:

I know it sounds odd, but the thing is, when on the 83 I have to spend all my focus on NOT to go too high, thus I can not crank the the foil like with the longer ones, where I can lean hard into the turn (sometimes drag my hand in the water) in fact almost no matter how much chop there is.
Even worse, I dont wanna turn hard, mentally because I know I might ventilate :o

If you dont care about supershort touchdowns with the edge or corner of your board, I can see how shorter masts might work, but I have found the opposite as said, that I can NOT crank as hard with the shorter ones.
And I would simply HATE if I made an ever so slight water touch with any part of the board :cry:

So I have found that I can turn more radical with the longer ones, eventhough the lever of the shorter ones should give you a slight advantage in this very respect yes.

Or it could be me being too lousy at this, I know :wink:

Just a very different view than most maybe ?

It is ambiguous - the short ones has a bit more liveliness indeed, but you can not crank over as hard in turns on a wave (or flat water), besides having less safety margin of course.

8) PF

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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby tomtom » Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:51 pm

"If you dont care about supershort touchdowns with the edge or corner of your board."
I think this is a key word.

I have not much experience but just from looking to SUP and Surf foiling videos they have a lot of supershort touchdowns and with board optimized to make touchdowns smooth so it doesnt disturb flow they dont care... Feel from shorter mast is closer to normal surfboard and rail to rail is quicker

And i think it will be new foils subtype of subtype. Something like this:

Short mast - SUP/SURF wing /so whole setup will be relatively slow with no drama touchdowns/, Board like - miniaturized Dave Kalama foil SUP/SURF - optimized to stay out of way in carve and make touchdowns as smooth as possible.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OLzMyLIkdF8

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jumptheshark
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Re: Do I bother to get a 60cm mast?

Postby jumptheshark » Mon Apr 09, 2018 1:20 am

Thats pretty sick with stubby little SUPs. The first time that has looked like its not completely handicapped by swing weight. Lotta bouncing. Glad I have a kite to do the work.

I hear what your saying too Peter. Can crank the foil over harder with a bit more strut. Will be interesting to see where it settles out.

I picked up a bigger wing over the winter and am psyched to get used to that. One change at a time.


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