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Another DIY foil

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kostantin
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Another DIY foil

Postby kostantin » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:38 am

Greetings,

the second set of wing mockups walk through my printer. To make this clear, I don`t print the wings, this does not work. What you see is one of six parts that will end in a carbon mold to make wings. Same with stab and fuselage. Mast mold is allready finished. I plan to make the mast seamless.
It took me ages to come to this point and I see tons of problems ahead, but no problems no fun :-)

On the other side the printing quality is hard to believe.



tks

Kosta


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opie
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby opie » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:44 am

Which printer is that? How did you design the molds? Fusion 360?

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kostantin
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby kostantin » Sat Dec 30, 2017 6:42 am

It is a CR-10 and the software is devmold wing

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby TomW » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:52 am

How do find the cr-10 working?
I have a Flashforge dreamer at work and have trouble with warping and distortion.
Do you have similar difficulties?

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby TomW » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:01 am

Interesting.
I've been doing some CAD on solidworks. Experimenting with making a wing.
Done some test prints of sections of the wing.

My thought was to print the wing core in parts, glue them together with a jig /fixture. Then vbag some carbon on the outside.
Thinking was to make a prototype wing this way. Just for fun, not production.
Why won't this work?

Can you share your method?

The devCad wing mold looks great! I've never heard of it before. Work OK?

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kostantin
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby kostantin » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:12 am

Greetings,

warping is a user problem. Usually :-)

Buy a FR4 building plate - 0,8mm is ok. Amazone or ebay. Pretty cheap stuff. Cut the right size. Dry sand it with 320 - 360grid till the surface is not glossy anymore. Don*t touch the surface with bare fingers.

I print the first layer very slow and with 72° pretty hot. Second layer with the temperature you use for your PLA, in my case 62°

My parts are extremly high and tall at the bottom. To prevent the mockups from slingering and getting loose I use helperdisk and I clamp them to the bed. That does not look very proffesional I know, but the results count.

The Cr-10 is printing like a boss. I don't have the S type but the old one. 300x300x400. You have to replace the glas bed for a mirror. Get the dampers in China if you have the printer in your appartment.

Cr-10 review check youtube for pressreset
dampers youtube for cr-10 dampers

Hope it helps

tks

Kosta

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kostantin
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby kostantin » Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:29 am

TomW wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:01 am
Interesting.
I've been doing some CAD on solidworks. Experimenting with making a wing.
Done some test prints of sections of the wing.

My thought was to print the wing core in parts, glue them together with a jig /fixture. Then vbag some carbon on the outside.
Thinking was to make a prototype wing this way. Just for fun, not production.
Why won't this work?

Can you share your method?

The devCad wing mold looks great! I've never heard of it before. Work OK?
It will not work too well. All those high performance wing foils are super sensitive when it comes to building errors. We talk about <0,10mm. If you put 2 layers on top and two on the bottom, we face around 0.9mm in totall and we face a different profile.
You will not be able to bag a printed wing. The force of vakuum will squeze the print to a toast shape. Epoxy does not stick very well on PLA. You will face delamination very quickly.

All guys no matter use devcad. I know software prices hurt, I use s3d for slicing, 150, devwing 90, stl tools 35 and all this has a very steep learning curve. Honestly I have had days where I was close to throw all the shit out of the window. But like a miracle a view month's ago suddenly ery thing looks very promissing and perfect.

tks

Kosta

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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby TomW » Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:42 pm

Thanks Kosta,

I understand and suspected the accuracy would be an issue. Can't get away from that problem.
Despite that, my thinking was to first layup glass over it to stabilise shape. Then use CF in vbag. Not full pressure. Anyway I think you are right that it is the wrong way.

I have a Form2 also, an SLA machine. My model wing will take 495g of epoxy and that costs 100€! Wing is hollowed out for most part. Using solidworks.

Back to your method. You will make mold for each half of wing. Top and bottom.
Then what is your laminating approach?

My thinking would to put light weight CF weave first 1-2 layers . And v-bag each half. To get best surface against mold.
I can't figure out how to avoid getting fiber into part line of mold. Just trim carefully I guess.
I don't have prepeg possibilities.
Then after cure fill each half with CF until it's filled and then clamp molds together? Seems hard to get it filled, but not under or over filled.

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kostantin
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby kostantin » Sat Dec 30, 2017 2:21 pm

TomW wrote:
Sat Dec 30, 2017 12:42 pm
Thanks Kosta,

I understand and suspected the accuracy would be an issue. Can't get away from that problem.
Despite that, my thinking was to first layup glass over it to stabilise shape. Then use CF in vbag. Not full pressure. Anyway I think you are right that it is the wrong way.

I have a Form2 also, an SLA machine. My model wing will take 495g of epoxy and that costs 100€! Wing is hollowed out for most part. Using solidworks.

Back to your method. You will make mold for each half of wing. Top and bottom.
Then what is your laminating approach?

My thinking would to put light weight CF weave first 1-2 layers . And v-bag each half. To get best surface against mold.
I can't figure out how to avoid getting fiber into part line of mold. Just trim carefully I guess.
I don't have prepeg possibilities.
Then after cure fill each half with CF until it's filled and then clamp molds together? Seems hard to get it filled, but not under or over filled.
Yes, I will make a two piece mold.

The halves will be glued together with Sicomin. It is an epoxy foam. I know from a picture that Moses is doing it the same way at least in the mast. The profiles I use are between 7 and 9% thin.
That is close to nothing. So I face a full mold, means whatever fits in the mold will be carbon.

I understand that you have a two piece mold. You can create the surface with crepe adhesive tape. Remove it, stick it on a thin piece of wood, cut it out and you have one half of your wing surface.

Put a transparent sheet of foil on a solid piece of wood. Resin and one layer carbon. Another piece of foil on top. Then take a sharp cutter and cut around the template. Remove a piece of foil, place it in the mold, remove the second piece of foil.
Make sure that the carbon is not higher then the frame of the mold one you have all layers set. So you will around six templates. Three for each side. A big, smaller and much smaller one. Saves you sanding.
By the way, the reason why some companies have such a terrible surface is the circumstance they use prepreg. So no worries in this case.

Hope this was helpful.

tks

Kosta

TomW
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Re: Another DIY foil

Postby TomW » Sun Dec 31, 2017 3:16 pm

Hi Kosta,

Super helpful. So once I have filled the mold halves with enough layers of " poor mans prepeg", cut with templates, then I just clamp the halves together?
Or do I use vacuum on each side, let cure and glue halves together ( in mold) after?

Also, I am now considering getting a creality CR 10 (5s) after researching it a bit.
You are building your mold halves " standing tall"? Why?
Why not build them flat ( I think I know the answer: warping and layer resolution)

Thanks a lot for your help.


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