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Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

A forum dedicated to Hydrofoil riders


plummet
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby plummet » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:06 am

juandesooka wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:39 pm
As kite foiling evolves, I think we're starting to see two distinct camps or ways of doing things: 1) people trying to ride the wave faces in the absence of the kite's power, which tends to be larger sup/surf foils that go very slow compared to what we're used to in kiting; and 2) wave oriented kite foils where the riders zip in and around and amongst waves, carving on the faces, but usually only momentarily on the wave face.
I think this is a fair statement if you are piddling around in sub head high waves. But once you saddle up to over head high a slow sup/surf foil will not cut the mustard. Then we see a third category, and thats big wave foiling that requires a different skill set and set up.

I've been thinking about the ideal set up for big wave foiling for double head and bigger. Kite Hawiaii is right. Super long mast 110cm would be lush mid to high aspect wing. short fuselarge and limited anhedral/dyhedral on the wings for increased maneuverability. I think i'm going to perculate this design in my brain for while and consider that my 2nd build will be the big wave foil.

juandesooka
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby juandesooka » Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:43 am

plummet wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:06 am
I think this is a fair statement if you are piddling around in sub head high waves. But once you saddle up to over head high a slow sup/surf foil will not cut the mustard. Then we see a third category, and thats big wave foiling that requires a different skill set and set up.

I've been thinking about the ideal set up for big wave foiling for double head and bigger. Kite Hawiaii is right. Super long mast 110cm would be lush mid to high aspect wing. short fuselarge and limited anhedral/dyhedral on the wings for increased maneuverability. I think i'm going to perculate this design in my brain for while and consider that my 2nd build will be the big wave foil.
Fair enough -- not too many foilers chasing head high plus, that's a niche within a niche within a niche. But good on ya ... look forward to the tales (and hopefully photos/videos).

In planning and percolating, you may want to keep an eye on this guy, seems to know a thing or two about foiling big waves! Mast does look long, who knows about wings. Being towed in has some similarity to using a kite. From what I understand, a nice guy ... if you drop him a line and ask him thoughts, he might pass along some tips. I suspect the gear might change though, as in this video he is racing the section left way ahead of the pocket. Next year I'll bet he's going to be going right, aiming for the barrel, and carving the crap out of it top to bottom. Who knows what modification that will require ... handling speed is probably the biggest issue, he's going crazy fast.


plummet
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby plummet » Sat Jan 27, 2018 2:25 am

juandesooka wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:43 am
plummet wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 1:06 am
I think this is a fair statement if you are piddling around in sub head high waves. But once you saddle up to over head high a slow sup/surf foil will not cut the mustard. Then we see a third category, and thats big wave foiling that requires a different skill set and set up.

I've been thinking about the ideal set up for big wave foiling for double head and bigger. Kite Hawiaii is right. Super long mast 110cm would be lush mid to high aspect wing. short fuselarge and limited anhedral/dyhedral on the wings for increased maneuverability. I think i'm going to perculate this design in my brain for while and consider that my 2nd build will be the big wave foil.
Fair enough -- not too many foilers chasing head high plus, that's a niche within a niche within a niche. But good on ya ... look forward to the tales (and hopefully photos/videos).

In planning and percolating, you may want to keep an eye on this guy, seems to know a thing or two about foiling big waves! Mast does look long, who knows about wings. Being towed in has some similarity to using a kite. From what I understand, a nice guy ... if you drop him a line and ask him thoughts, he might pass along some tips. I suspect the gear might change though, as in this video he is racing the section left way ahead of the pocket. Next year I'll bet he's going to be going right, aiming for the barrel, and carving the crap out of it top to bottom. Who knows what modification that will require ... handling speed is probably the biggest issue, he's going crazy fast.

Nice. That vid kinda proves my point. Being arsed waves mean big speed. It's the number one thing you need to able to handle and control. I've attempted double head and the speed was just silly. Too much for my 90cm mast/mid aspect wing. I managed a few runs without henious crashes. But most of the time it was a high speed foil venting smack downs On the wave face....... I've got better at speed since then. So let's see what happens next time.

windmaker
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby windmaker » Sat Jan 27, 2018 6:46 am

Any wave rider will tell you, the bigger the wave, the higher the speed.

slowboat
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby slowboat » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:45 am

For people who are currently using big SUP type wings for kitefoiling in waves, what do you think the limit is as far as wave size?

kitehawaii
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby kitehawaii » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:16 pm

slowboat wrote:
Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:45 am
For people who are currently using big SUP type wings for kitefoiling in waves, what do you think the limit is as far as wave size?
chest high max. big wings can't be controlled at higher speeds.

kitehawaii
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby kitehawaii » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:22 pm

3InletsWindsports wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:16 pm
This is the style we need to see more of
https://vimeo.com/252792184
That's pretty cool and maybe the canard setup is better for wave riding. I would love to try one. But those were some pretty tiny and weak waves. I like the angle of the video.

kitehawaii
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby kitehawaii » Wed Jan 31, 2018 9:46 pm

juandesooka wrote:
Fri Jan 26, 2018 10:39 pm

In the end, who cares. It's all supposed to be about having fun. And I get that some people find arguing online to be fun too. ;-)
Well said, when I'm even near a wave with my foil the concentration goes into high gear. While that may take away from the enjoyment a little the transfer of power from the wave up trough the foil is distinct, unique and unmistakable. Slowing down and speeding up as needed will be the key. Not sure there is an easy solution to the that. I'm ecstatic at this point just to kick out and look for another. Doing laps around windsurfers is also kind of fun. But, make no mistake riding waves with a foil is only waiting more development and practice and risk taking.

Image

Pro windsurfer Ross Williams who also kites had an evil grin when he looked me in the eyes turned inside of me. He later told me thought he was a little to close when my kite lines went off his sail on his top turn. The first day he kited the point at the Hookup he ended up on the rocks. Karma showed him the light. We plan to try to ride few together as some point. Probably not with a foil.

juandesooka
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby juandesooka » Fri Feb 09, 2018 6:44 pm

I am in the midst of experimenting with large wings, most for sup/paddle foil, but lately using it under a kite (Takuma clone). It has been fun to feel how fast it gets up onto foiling and interesting how slow its max speed is. Needs a really small kite, very underpowered, to work properly.

There's been no real swell, so the experiment isn't really a proper test, but even in small windswell it's sure noticable how you can actually surf the swells with the large wing. If you can entirely turn off the kite's pull, then you are riding only the waves power. The challenge seems to be that once you drop in, any pull at all from the kite will get you overpowered and potential wing breach. I also imagine that it cannot handle larger faster waves, as the top speed may not provide enough glide to make a fast drop and race the sections.

Yesterday I got a session on my normal kitefoil (stringy) in some wind swell, was quite weird to go back. The long mast and the fast wings felt "slippery", no resistance in the water (Canadian reference: like having newly sharpened skates right after the zamboni cleaned the ice ;-) It was a great feeling to go faster and to make sharp turns with speed ... but definitely felt less like "surfing" the swells, more using them as moving ramps to bank turns. Which was super fun, but a different style of wave riding.

3InletsWindsports
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Re: Wave Riding with a Foil Limits

Postby 3InletsWindsports » Thu Feb 15, 2018 8:23 am

The Spitfire with STD wings as I use does me fine in what I would describe as head to head and half.
I only use one kite, 8m Notus Air, and like cross shore wind so it seems I get nothing else.
But coming in healside working upwind getting onto wave seems easy enough. But as the wave starts to smooth out there seems to be an extra lift that helps when I roll over to toeside to get up to top then cut back down. I don’t care if board touches at top it sort feels good.
But I need to work on kite control to get a second bottom turn rather than needing to turn back upwind to keep kite control.


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