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Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

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james
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby james » Tue Jan 23, 2018 12:31 am

So after rejecting the refund you thought f*** it I am gonna bag on a product that I just accepted against the offer made by your retailer?


If as you claim above it’s second quality what were you doing paying retail for it? Or even accepting it? Unless you got a super bro deal and still thought it was a good idea to go all foum righteous under the guise of a public service announcement

Are you serious?

norcom
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby norcom » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:13 am

james wrote: So after rejecting the refund you thought f*** it I am gonna bag on a product that I just accepted against the offer made by your retailer?


If as you claim above it’s second quality what were you doing paying retail for it? Or even accepting it? Unless you got a super bro deal and still thought it was a good idea to go all foum righteous under the guise of a public service announcement

Are you serious?
Yeah, I am. And I paid retail for it, though not the 2018 retail price as that went up. I've been watching this mast for a while. I accepted it because there's no other options for the three sets of Moses compatible wings and fuselage I already have. I didn't want to wait around to try and find another one and going through the same problem. Perhaps they'll change their quality control for the future. Had I not said anything, none of you would know what is acceptable by this company. I'm sure once I epoxy it, I'll void the warranty too. Not worried anymore.

Your profile says you're the Slingshot brand manager. I've had issues with Slingshot where a new kite had glue residue left over because the taped seams didn't line up properly. Seems like a small thing but it was a 14m Rally. Sand was sticking to a huge canopy area which would have put pinholes into it in no time. Lookup my posts from a couple of years ago. I posted here first asking how to remove the glue but Slingshot replaced the kite and aftewards told me acetone would not hurt the canopy. Maybe that issue happens a lot, maybe it was a freak occurence. I spend a lot of money, I would like the brand to stand by their product. Slingshot now gets my business. My most used/favorite board right now is a Slingshot Converter and I just picked up another SST. I'm also looking into another foilboard and Slingshot is at the top of the list. I'm even glad I bought the Moses foil with the "Slingshot sticker" on it. The sticker was laughed at by someone in this thread. That sticker, to me, adds reassurance that a brand I trust stands behind it. As a "brand manager" I would hope you understand this.

I posted a picture and a response. This brand isn't bashed and has absolutely nothing to lose if this is acceptable.

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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby BWD » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:21 am

Everyone has their rights to prefer one over the other, I hope you end up enjoying what you have.
I don't dispute that it's not perfect, and all these foils are pricey enough to want the best you can get.

P.S. if you are interested in some more high end stickers for your gear I can work you up something flawless for just a few hundred.
Sorry for my humor but water is still 1 degree over freezing here...

james
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby james » Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:34 am

Norcom

The slingshot sticker just says, we never bothered to design our own foil, we happily borrowed the design from lift for our first one and now get them fancy Italians at Moses to do our design too.. all the while we charge a premium to our customers as they think we have added something magic to someone else’s work,

It’s the same with the foil kite they have, it’s an Elf joker.

Glad you found time to click my profile, I really should change it, I haven’t worked for slingshot for maybe 4 years, 4 happy years of not having to deal with deluded bleeding hearts that want hand holding and the constant public reassurance that Internet forums can provide.

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gmb13
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby gmb13 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:46 am

Foil wrote:
Mon Jan 22, 2018 4:28 pm
I am guessing that Moses (SAS) also make the Levitaz parts? The covers are the same and the logo paint colours the same.
No. Levitaz has their own production in Austria. If you look closely there are major differences between broth brands carbon parts.

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gmb13
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby gmb13 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:58 am

norcom wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:13 am
james wrote: So after rejecting the refund you thought f*** it I am gonna bag on a product that I just accepted against the offer made by your retailer?


If as you claim above it’s second quality what were you doing paying retail for it? Or even accepting it? Unless you got a super bro deal and still thought it was a good idea to go all foum righteous under the guise of a public service announcement

Are you serious?
Yeah, I am. And I paid retail for it, though not the 2018 retail price as that went up. I've been watching this mast for a while. I accepted it because there's no other options for the three sets of Moses compatible wings and fuselage I already have. I didn't want to wait around to try and find another one and going through the same problem. Perhaps they'll change their quality control for the future. Had I not said anything, none of you would know what is acceptable by this company. I'm sure once I epoxy it, I'll void the warranty too. Not worried anymore.



I posted a picture and a response. This brand isn't bashed and has absolutely nothing to lose if this is acceptable.
I disagree. You have been told multiple times in this thread that there is no problem with the base. Those pinholes are very minor. Your insistence on that this is bad QC, even though far more experienced members have corrected you, makes it clear that your only goal is to spread false information. You are trying to convince everyone that there is an issue where there is none. Now if you had cracks in the base, unevenness in the mast, crocked mast, if it broke on first use, then you would have something to complain about.

Small pinholes in the base are acceptable to every brand in the industry. As some also have mentioned, other brands do concentrate on cosmetic things, but mainly to cover up shoddy lamination where you cannot see it. Some of them are big brands that sell at premium prices, but have major issues with breakage etc.

--
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norcom
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby norcom » Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:53 pm

gmb13 wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:58 am

I disagree. You have been told multiple times in this thread that there is no problem with the base. Those pinholes are very minor. Your insistence on that this is bad QC, even though far more experienced members have corrected you, makes it clear that your only goal is to spread false information. You are trying to convince everyone that there is an issue where there is none. Now if you had cracks in the base, unevenness in the mast, crocked mast, if it broke on first use, then you would have something to complain about.

Small pinholes in the base are acceptable to every brand in the industry. As some also have mentioned, other brands do concentrate on cosmetic things, but mainly to cover up shoddy lamination where you cannot see it. Some of them are big brands that sell at premium prices, but have major issues with breakage etc.

--
Gunnar
I only said that after doing some searching regarding air bubbles and finding that certain composite manufacturers (not kite industry) considered bubbles second quality and others were OK with bubbles. Over the years I've seen plenty of videos where the resin is first put into a vacuum to get the bubbles out prior to wetting. I don't know if this was done here or if it would have even helped. I voiced my dissappointment in the aesthetics which I consider QC but feel free to voice your opinion.

Perhaps you'd like to post pictures of what other manufacturers consider acceptable? You have access to a lot of products. I've seen your videos and read your posts. Most people that sell products never give them a bad review because they lose business. I remember you posting about a Chinese SUP foil and how you didn't find the quality acceptable but I did not see a single picture of what you found wrong.

After filling the voids with resin last night, the large hole next to the screw on the left, where a part of the screw was visible inside the hole took quite a large amount of resin to fill in. This could be fine, or I could lose my wings and fuselage the first time I hit an object in the water. I'll find out once I get it wet. The aesthetics weren't pleasing to me and now they are, it looks much better in person than in the pic.
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Screen Shot 2018-01-23 at 8.29.37 AM.png

norcom
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby norcom » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:11 pm

james wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 9:34 am
Norcom

The slingshot sticker just says, we never bothered to design our own foil, we happily borrowed the design from lift for our first one and now get them fancy Italians at Moses to do our design too.. all the while we charge a premium to our customers as they think we have added something magic to someone else’s work,

It’s the same with the foil kite they have, it’s an Elf joker.

Glad you found time to click my profile, I really should change it, I haven’t worked for slingshot for maybe 4 years, 4 happy years of not having to deal with deluded bleeding hearts that want hand holding and the constant public reassurance that Internet forums can provide.
I knew it was a Moses foil with a Slingshot sticker before I bought it, just as their new foil kite. I spend enough time on the forum to know that. The Ghost Whisper was also one of the least expensive options when I bought it as it went up in price $400 a week after I got mine and has only increased with the 2018 models. This foil has also made me fall in love with foiling after the LF Happy Foil, which I never thought I would. Though my current preference is a SUP foil on the Converter.

Yes, I like to check who I'm dealing with from their prior posts and views sometimes. I hope Slingshot UK now has a brand manager who doesn't mind supporting customers, as that's what their job is. A brand is only good as the people behind it and there's plenty of threads on the board discussing just that. (I'm not implying that you weren't a great brand manager, you may have been the best and people like me drove you nuts and out of the business) :D

james
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby james » Tue Jan 23, 2018 3:36 pm

If the current brand manager for slingshot in the Uk actually kites I will be amazed...

It’s fair to say that after 15 years in the industry I left feeling ever so slightly jaded and somewhat sick of the or marketing efforts of brands to push agenda or ‘new’ product into a market that was at capacity.

After a two year break I foil and speed sail for fun, for me, and not fir a brand/store or because I have to. It’s a pleasant change

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gmb13
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Re: Moses Quality Control is ... you decide

Postby gmb13 » Tue Jan 23, 2018 6:58 pm

norcom wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 2:53 pm
gmb13 wrote:
Tue Jan 23, 2018 11:58 am

I disagree. You have been told multiple times in this thread that there is no problem with the base. Those pinholes are very minor. Your insistence on that this is bad QC, even though far more experienced members have corrected you, makes it clear that your only goal is to spread false information. You are trying to convince everyone that there is an issue where there is none. Now if you had cracks in the base, unevenness in the mast, crocked mast, if it broke on first use, then you would have something to complain about.

Small pinholes in the base are acceptable to every brand in the industry. As some also have mentioned, other brands do concentrate on cosmetic things, but mainly to cover up shoddy lamination where you cannot see it. Some of them are big brands that sell at premium prices, but have major issues with breakage etc.

--
Gunnar


Perhaps you'd like to post pictures of what other manufacturers consider acceptable? You have access to a lot of products. I've seen your videos and read your posts. Most people that sell products never give them a bad review because they lose business. I remember you posting about a Chinese SUP foil and how you didn't find the quality acceptable but I did not see a single picture of what you found wrong.

I am pretty sure I mentioned that it did not contain any carbon and was just cheap fibreglass which also was not thoroughly wetted. In all my videos I have given fair reviews. I have mentioned the good and bad points of each foil, including the Moses Foils.

Here are some pics of one of the most expensive brands on the Market that does not produce in China. Dry Fibers hanging out of the LeadingEdge of the Mast. The Mast was also way too soft.
image001.jpg
fibres.png
fibres.png (208.13 KiB) Viewed 567 times
And here some from another high end brand. All the White dots are not sand, that is filler.
WhatsApp Image 2018-01-23 at 17.48.00.jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2018-01-23 at 17.48.00 (1).jpeg
WhatsApp Image 2018-01-23 at 17.55.18.jpeg
A new pinholes on a base are nothing compared to this stuff.

--
Gunnar


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